The Judges Must Have Forgotten to Check Her Nether Regions....

[MajGenl.Meade]

Bill, you need to get the bile out of "freaks of nature" and consider that people are - simply - people. You missed an excellent talk by blinding yourself in one or two eyes early on. There was nothing there aimed at making you "change your mind" or indeed even giving a flying fart what your mind (or mine) might think.

Your mind makes not one bit of difference (nor does mine) to the fact that we are all, in some minuscule or major way, flawed. No one fits the non-existent pattern exactly. I can testify to that on a personal level though I'm not brave enough to make a video - a comedy routine I have considered.

The issue is not whether this person is a man or a woman. Raised as a female, equipped with female external genitalia, but unaware of a y chromosome lurking in there, she's not internally equipped to have children. Hormone treatment to help secondary sexual characteristics develop apparently worked but she shot up to a height of 6 feet.

She's not "self-identifying" as a man when she's a woman or a woman when she's really a man. She is retaining the identify assigned at birth and living her life using the pronoun she's comfortable with - she.

She's not a woman because she chooses to be one rather than be a man. She's going with most of what she's got and she's incredibly brave and honest to put that video out there. You should read some of the comments - there are a lot of people out there with physical gender anomalies. Far from being freaks, though treated that way by some damned awful friends, relatives and partners.

You and I have no business expressing contempt for such people, nor for those adults who genuinely are conflicted sexually and wish to alter their structures to comply more closely with their wish to change.

I believe what you (and I) might justly be concerned about are parents of 2, 3 , 4 year-olds who create and encourage sexual identify uncertainty in their offspring. I do not think there are any 3 year olds suddenly snapping their little fingers and saying, "Mom, I feel oppressed in my sexual role as (girl or boy) and am desirous of taking advantage of modern medical science to change my gender". And that goes for the society which is pressing for children to be indoctrinated into believing that gender is solely a matter of choice.

Or something like that.

[BoSoxGal]

Approximately as many people globally are born intersex as are born red heads. They are not 'freaks of nature,' they are part of the continuum of human existence.

https://ihra.org.au/16601/intersex-numbers/

[Sue U]

I believe what you (and I) might justly be concerned about are parents of 2, 3 , 4 year-olds who create and encourage sexual identify uncertainty in their offspring. I do not think there are any 3 year olds suddenly snapping their little fingers and saying, "Mom, I feel oppressed in my sexual role as (girl or boy) and am desirous of taking advantage of modern medical science to change my gender". And that goes for the society which is pressing for children to be indoctrinated into believing that gender is solely a matter of choice.

The number of "parents of 2, 3, 4-year-olds who create and encourage" uncertainty in their children's gender identity is vanishingly small (probably nonexistent, statistically) -- and far, far smaller than the number of parents who demand strict binary gender certainty and conformity of their children despite those children's contrary expressions and desires. Moreover, there is no "society which is pressing for children to be indoctrinated into believing that gender is solely a matter of choice." Gender expression is the result of many factors, mostly biological, and not necessarily "consistent" with the usual pairings of anatomy. What I am justly concerned about is simply letting people be who they are and living in a society where it's okay to do so.

[Sue U]

A story about gender identity in the very young:

Like many children, when my son was about 3 or 4 he developed a tremendous interest in dinosaurs. He amassed a very large collection of dinosaur figurines, could identify them all by species and era, and could tell you all kinds of facts about each one. One day I went to pick him up at the daycare and I saw two little girls playing with dinosaur figurines. "Oh, do you like dinosaurs?" I asked them. "Yes, we love dinosaurs," says one. "Do you know the names of those dinosaurs you've got there?" I inquired. "Yes, this one is Wendy and that one is Maria."

[MajGenl.Meade]

The number of "parents of 2, 3, 4-year-olds who create and encourage" uncertainty in their children's gender identity is vanishingly small (probably nonexistent, statistically) -- and far, far smaller than the number of parents who demand strict binary gender certainty and conformity of their children despite those children's contrary expressions and desires. Moreover, there is no "society which is pressing for children to be indoctrinated into believing that gender is solely a matter of choice." Gender expression is the result of many factors, mostly biological, and not necessarily "consistent" with the usual pairings of anatomy. What I am justly concerned about is simply letting people be who they are and living in a society where it's okay to do so.

I disagree (though not with your final sentence). The current trend is to normalize the teaching that gender is a choice, even for those too young to knowledgeably make a choice. The number of children who "express contrary expressions and desires" is statistically small but the current effort is to increase that number as far as possible.

I enjoyed the dinosaur story, suspecting that it may illustrate the difference between an obsession and an interest in narrative fantasy.

[BoSoxGal]

The number of "parents of 2, 3, 4-year-olds who create and encourage" uncertainty in their children's gender identity is vanishingly small (probably nonexistent, statistically) -- and far, far smaller than the number of parents who demand strict binary gender certainty and conformity of their children despite those children's contrary expressions and desires. Moreover, there is no "society which is pressing for children to be indoctrinated into believing that gender is solely a matter of choice." Gender expression is the result of many factors, mostly biological, and not necessarily "consistent" with the usual pairings of anatomy. What I am justly concerned about is simply letting people be who they are and living in a society where it's okay to do so.

I disagree (though not with your final sentence). The current trend is to normalize the teaching that gender is a choice, even for those too young to knowledgeably make a choice. The number of children who "express contrary expressions and desires" is statistically small but the current effort is to increase that number as far as possible.

I enjoyed the dinosaur story, suspecting that it may illustrate the difference between an obsession and an interest in narrative fantasy.

Where is this being taught, Meade? In what classroom have you sat and heard a public school teacher present such a lesson?

Or is this just like a similar assertion last year in another thread where you presented right wing propaganda you're hearing on the media of your choice as though it's what is happening in the schools as official policy?

Just for context, I live in THE most liberal state in the USA. I work with public school kids in an educational setting. So I have some actual evidence to bring to this discussion, not crap false assertions I've seen on Daily Mail about the horrors occurring in the public schools today.