Ignorance of the Law IS a Defense?

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Joe Guy
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Ignorance of the Law IS a Defense?

Post by Joe Guy »

First of all, a five year prison sentence for voting illegally sounds like cruel and unusual punishment. Secondly, the appeal court's decision to toss out the prison sentence doesn't seem right either.

What do you think?

Texas woman's prison sentence for attempting to vote illegally is thrown out

A Texas appeals court tossed out a woman's five-year prison sentence for voting illegally Thursday, ending a yearslong saga that garnered national attention.

Crystal Mason was sentenced in 2018 to five years in prison after she testified she did not know that she was ineligible to vote because she was convicted of tax fraud in 2011. She cast a provisional ballot in the 2016 presidential election with the help of a poll worker.

In Thursday's ruling to overturn Mason's sentence, Second District Appeals Court Justice Wade Birdwell wrote that "finding Mason to be not credible — and disbelieving her protestation of actual knowledge — does not suffice as proof of guilt."

Mason had testified that when she was in prison, she was not informed that she could not vote upon her release, Birdwell detailed. She also "emphatically denied" having read the provisional ballot's affirmations detailing felon voting restrictions, testifying that she did not know she was not allowed to cast a ballot because she was on supervised release from prison, according to Birdwell.

Mason's ballot was not counted when officials determined that she was ineligible to vote because of her 2011 conviction, the ruling said.

"In the end, the State’s primary evidence was that Mason read the words on the affidavit," Birdwell said.

"But even if she had read them, they are not sufficient — even in the context of the rest of the evidence in this case — to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she actually knew that being on supervised release after having served her entire federal sentence of incarceration made her ineligible to vote by casting a provisional ballot when she did so," he added.

The Court of Criminal Appeals announced in 2021 that it would consider an appeal from Mason, who was out of prison on an appeal bond.

Her 2018 sentence drew national attention, and critics have rallied against the lower court's decision.
source

Burning Petard
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Re: Ignorance of the Law IS a Defense?

Post by Burning Petard »

No, lack of evidence on the part of the prosecution is a defense. Personally, I think she was probably voting Republican. There have been 'many, many' instances of established voter fraud, nearly all of them by Republicans.

snailgate.

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Joe Guy
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Re: Ignorance of the Law IS a Defense?

Post by Joe Guy »

Burning Petard wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2024 10:19 pm
No, lack of evidence on the part of the prosecution is a defense.
That's the part I don't understand. She signed an affidavit that said she understood a felon's voting restrictions but the appeals court ruled that it didn't matter because even though she signed something that said she understood, it doesn't prove that she understood.

I guess the language on the provisional affidavit instructions need to be updated. Apparently understanding what it currently says doesn't mean that you comprehend it.

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: Ignorance of the Law IS a Defense?

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

My recollection - and possibly I am confusing this with another case - is that she was genuinely confused about her situation thinking that she had 'paid her debt to society' which is why she submitted a provisional vote. We can argue that the law should be changed (should ex-felons be allowed to vote once they have completed their sentences, fines etc??) but in this case it looks as if it worked the way intended: she submitted a provisional vote; it was assessed; and she was found ineligible. So the vote wasn't counted.

Meanwhile Mark Meadows (TFG's erstwhile Chief of Staff) registered to vote in NC at a home he and his wife never used nor visited. No punishment that I am aware of. And Brian Pritchard (Georgia's VC Republican Party) voted 9 times in 2020 and was fined $5000. I'm guessing he and his family still eat tonight despite this enormous drain on their budget. I don't know what he does for a living but he looks sleek. Sometimes digging into shit takes its toll. But this is what he says about himself on his website: (https://bkp4ga.com)
I’m excited to announce today that I am running for Georgia State GOP 1st Vice Chair. I am a grassroots guy. I travel my district speaking to republicans about the issues that plague our country, our state, and our counties. I have been a republican since the day I came into this world, there was no other way in my family. For those who watch my show, www.voiceofruralamerica.com, you know my values and I will stand up for the Constitution and Christian values. I am running because I want on the inside to ensure that we have a successful 2024 presidential election in GA and that we elect a republican in GA. I look forward to meeting you and earning your vote in the coming months.

Big RR
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Re: Ignorance of the Law IS a Defense?

Post by Big RR »

From what I have read, the Texas law specifically requires proof that the person knew they could not vote for a conviction--it is not enough that the person voted when they were ineligible. Indeed, it appears the Texas legislature mad this requirement fairly clear, and statements were made during the vote that the singing of a provisional ballot certificate is not enough.

As for the affidavit, I guess it would been evidence that she had such knowledge, but not sufficient in and of itself, and the prosecution apprently provided nothing more. Since many people sign documents without reading them--a stupid, but common, action--I am not surprised that the ballot affidavit alone is not sufficient. In any event, now the prosecutors should know what they need to prove to get a conviction under the law.

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Ignorance of the Law IS a Defense?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

the singing of a provisional

For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Sue U
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Re: Ignorance of the Law IS a Defense?

Post by Sue U »

Big RR wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 1:54 pm
the singing of a provisional ballot certificate is not enough.
When I covered cops & crime as a newswriter, I was always amazed at how many police reports said the investigating officer or victim would be singing the complaint. Truly, America's got talent.
Big RR wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2024 1:54 pm
Since many people sign documents without reading them
My policy is to never read a document before signing. If I read it, I might be held to its terms.


ETA:

Bravo, Meade.
GAH!

Big RR
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Re: Ignorance of the Law IS a Defense?

Post by Big RR »

Come on Sue, you don't recall the NYPD guy after the WTC? I think I must have heard God Bless America on the news more than a hundred times.

And, of course, there was The Singing Detective.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Singing_Detective

:D

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: Ignorance of the Law IS a Defense?

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

And another R caught for trying - apparently successfully - to submit multiple votes.
Iowa woman found guilty of voter fraud in support of Republican husband
Kim Taylor of Woodbury county given eight-month custodial sentence for helping Jeremy Taylor fraudulently win election
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... an-husband

Because there were 52 counts of submitting falsified ballots, and the potential punishment for each was 5 years, the judge decided to impose less than the possible 260 years and gave her four months in prison and four months home confinement. I think that means an ankle bracelet. Anyway
During sentencing on Monday, Leonard Strand, the judge, said a vastly lighter punishment was correct because of factors including Taylor’s caretaking role for her children and good community standing.
Really? Does 'good community standing' = 'had not previously been caught trying to subvert democracy'?

Elsewhere on the same case: (https://iowastartingline.com/2024/04/02 ... ter-fraud/)
According to the Sioux City Journal, Taylor also used people’s ballots to cast votes for Donald Trump during the 2020 presidential election. The Journal reports that one of the people Taylor forged a ballot for was a registered Democrat and he testified that he “had no intention of voting for Donald Trump in that election.”

Siouxland Public Media reports that during the sentencing, Judge Strand [nominated by Obama in 2015 at the suggestion of Chuck Grassley - R (Iowa)] was concerned people would assume the US Department of Justice had targeted Taylor because her voter fraud efforts were used to boost her husband, who is a Republican, and the federal government is under a Democratic administration. A federal prosecutor downplayed that notion and told the judge, “We follow the evidence where it leads us … regardless of political party.”

Jarlaxle
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Re: Ignorance of the Law IS a Defense?

Post by Jarlaxle »

She should hang.

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