France bans the burka

[Gob]

A law has come into force in France which makes it an offence for a Muslim woman to conceal her face behind a veil when in public.

Anyone caught breaking the law will be liable to a fine of 150 euros (£133, $217) and a citizenship course.

People forcing women to wear the veil face a much larger fine and a prison sentence of up to two years.

France is the first country in Europe to publicly ban a form of dress some Muslims regard as a religious duty.

Under the law, any woman - French or foreign - walking on the street or in a park in France and wearing a face-concealing veil such as the niqab or burqa can be stopped by police and given a fine.

It is a small fine maybe but symbolically this is a huge change.

The French government says the face-covering veil undermines the basic standards required for living in a shared society and also relegates its wearers to an inferior status incompatible with French notions of equality.

And most people in France, including most Muslims, would agree.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13031397

Following on from this thread here.

[Scooter]

Sure, make these women even more isolated and prevent them from becoming integrated into society by making it impossible for them to ever go outdoors.

[Rick]

The French government says the face-covering veil undermines the basic standards required for living in a shared society and also relegates its wearers to an inferior status incompatible with French notions of equality.

[Scooter]

And? An anti-veil law is going to cause women who have been wearing one all their lives to spontaneously rise up and yank them off?

[Rick]

If they don't they're STILL just second class.

Just not publicly demonstrative...

[Scooter]

So better that they be perpetually confined to their homes, and therefore even more subservient to the men in their family than they already are?

[Big RR]

Not to mention what it's going to do to brides and weddings.

[Gob]

So better that they be perpetually confined to their homes, and therefore even more subservient to the men in their family than they already are?

Not all will, and could the husbands be done for false imprisonment if they are?

[Scooter]

Fine, you set about proving that.

Changing a law doesn't undo generations of social conditioning. There might be a chance of that happening if women in veils have the opportunity to interact with the rest of the world and see how the other half lives, so to speak. Taking away the only means they currently possess to get out into that world is counterproductive and is only going to serve to make them feel that the world sees them as more of an outsider than they already do. As an approach to integrating them into society it is doomed to fail.

[Rick]

So better that they be perpetually confined to their homes, and therefore even more subservient to the men in their family than they already are?

If it is JUST a matter of subservience then here is an out...

[Scooter]

It's not an out because it is a subservience of the mind and the spirit, and not just an external subservience to which they submit themselves against their will.

[Gob]

And you support it?

[@meric@nwom@n]

Hassen Chalghoumi, a Tunisian-born imam in northern Paris, backed the proposed ban last week, saying full-face veils had no basis in Islam and “belong to a tiny minority tradition reflecting an ideology that scuttles the Muslim religion”.

“The burqa is a prison for women, a tool of sexist domination,” he said.

There may in fact be a generation of martyrs involved in this. Beyond that one would hope there is a greater awareness of what life can be for women outside of an oppressive and twisted religion. The next generation will perhaps escape those bonds unscathed and free in a country known for libertie.

[Scooter]

And you support it?

Yeah, I'm all for women being required to sheath themselves from head to toe before going out in public.

[Gob]

And you support it?

Yeah, I'm all for women being required to sheath themselves from head to toe before going out in public.

Well it doesn't affect you like it does the rest of us .

[Gob]

France's controversial burka ban became law today sparking a protest in Paris during which two women wearing full face veils were arrested.


The demonstrations, however, were on a relatively small scale with the handful of protesters being outnumbered by police, reporters and tourists. Ironically, the biggest protest was actually in London where a group of women in full black burkas gathered outside the French Embassy.



Shouting slogans and bearing banners with the words Shariah 4 France, Nicolas Sarkozy Burn In Hellfire and Niqab: Honour For Women, they were the most vocal opponents to the new law.

Hateful preacher Abu Izzadeen, who has previously been jailed for incitement, spoke during the protest.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1JHOC6L00




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1JHNODOW1

[rubato]

Its an experiment I would not want to do, because I'm a good civil libertarian and prefer individual choice, but I am interested to see the results.

yrs,
rubato

[Gob]

See what happens when you ban the Burka and give women freedom?

A MUSLIM actress has caused a storm by posing naked for Playboy.

Sila Sahin has been branded a "whore" and a "western slut" after appearing topless on the cover of the German edition of the men's magazine.

And Islamic fanatics have posted threatening internet messages.

Sila, raised in Germany by conservative Turkish parents, says she fears being "spat at" and "shamed".

Her parents are said to have reacted with "horror" at the 12-page coverage, and her mother has apparently cut off all contact.

Sila, 25 - star of German soap Good Times, Bad Times - claimed the shoot was a reaction to the "slavery" of her youth.

She added: "What I want to say with these photos is, 'Girls, we don't have to live according to the rules imposed upon us'.

"For years I subordinated myself to various societal constraints. The Playboy photo shoot was a total act of liberation."

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... y-mag.html

[The Hen]

At least she didn't commit an offense in France.

[liberty]

It is their country so if is up to French people to regulator their society as they see fit. And there are practical reason why it may not be advantageous to allow people to hide their identity in public. In Louisiana except during a Mardi Gras celebration it is illegal wear a mask or otherwise hide ones identity as was establish by law during the occupation.