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Suspicious minds.

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:59 pm
by Gob
Anyone know WTF is going on here?
Rallies held for slain Florida teenager Trayvon Martin

Students in Florida are rallying to demand the arrest of a man who shot dead an unarmed black teenager.

George Zimmerman gunned down Trayvon Martin as the 17-year-old was walking through a gated community in an Orlando suburb while visiting relatives.

Mr Zimmerman, 28, says he acted in self-defence. A 2005 state law allows deadly force if a person believes their life is in danger.

The incident has raised concerns among civil rights leaders.

Student rallies have been organised on Monday in front of a criminal court building in Sanford, the community where the shooting happened, and on the campus of Florida A&M University in Tallahassee.

Civil rights leader and television host Al Sharpton plans a rally on Thursday at a Sanford church.

Martin's parents told reporters on Friday that they want the FBI to take over the case, as they no longer trust the Sanford police.

"I feel betrayed by the Sanford Police Department and there's no way that I can still trust them in investigating this crime," his father, Tracy Martin, said.

An FBI spokesman said the agency was "aware of the incident" and had been in contact with local authorities.

Mr Zimmerman, acting as a neighbourhood watch volunteer, had called police several times in the months before the shooting to report incidents.

He called police on 26 February, reporting there had been break-ins in the community, and that there was "a real suspicious guy" who "looks like he's up to no good".

When he said he was following the person he had identified as suspicious, the dispatcher said: "We don't need you to do that."

Martin was walking to a nearby store to buy confectionary for his brother when the incident happened, according to a family lawyer.

He lived in Miami with his mother and was visiting Sanford.

The release of emergency calls recordings, including two from neighbours during which screams and shots can be heard, have fuelled demands for a federal investigation.

Sanford police chief Bill Lee has rejected criticism of his department.

"The hysteria, the media circus, it's just crazy," Mr Lee told the Orlando Sentinel.

"It's sad for the city of Sanford, the police department, because I know in my heart we did a good job."

Mr Zimmerman's father, Robert Zimmerman, wrote a letter to the Orlando Sentinel denying his son had followed or confronted Martin.

He said his son was a "Spanish-speaking minority with many black family members and friends".

He called the portrayal of the younger Mr Zimmerman "false and extremely misleading".


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17435776

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:07 pm
by BoSoxGal
Racism, class warfare and the gun culture all alive and well in the good ol' USA.

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:17 pm
by The Hen
This is why I am glad morons can't automatically have the right to use a weapon in Australia.

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:20 pm
by Gob
Trayvon Martin: Police chief temporarily steps down

A Florida police chief criticised over the investigation into the shooting of an unarmed black teenager has announced he will temporarily step down.

Bill Lee had been censured by officials in Sanford, an Orlando suburb, over the death of Trayvon Martin.

A mass rally led by civil rights leader Reverend Al Sharpton will be held later to demand justice for the 17-year-old.

Neighbourhood watchman George Zimmerman, 28, was not charged for shooting the teenager.

He said he was defending himself because Mr Martin had attacked him. In Florida, a law known as "stand your ground" can prevent criminal or civil prosecution when deadly force is used in self-defence.

Mr Lee's decision to stand aside comes a day after city commissioners in Sanford issued a vote of no-confidence in him.

They voted 3-2 to censure the police chief, who has held his position for just 10 months.

"I take no pleasure in a public flogging of our police chief," Commissioner Mark McCarty said, according to the Orlando Sentinel. "But he really should turn in his resignation."

Mr Martin's parents have met federal officials reviewing police conduct.

Nearly one million people have signed online petitions calling for justice.

Mr Sharpton tweeted that he would still attend the rally despite the death of his mother, who passed away on Wednesday.

"My MOM would have wanted me to," he said.

In anticipation of large numbers of protesters, the rally venue was moved from a 400-seat church to Fort Mellon Park in Sanford.

On Wednesday, Mr Martin's parents addressed a mass rally in New York to call for the arrest of Mr Zimmerman.

His father, Tracy Martin, told that so-called Million Hoodie March: "My son did not deserve to die," and said police had racially profiled his son.

Although Mr Martin was killed in late February, the publication of 911 emergency calls and sworn testimony from a friend have fuelled debate over whether the shooting was truly a case of self-defence.

A Florida grand jury is considering whether there is enough evidence to file charges, and the US justice department has launched a probe into the local police investigation.

In a statement Sanford City Manager Norton Bonaparte called the death of Mr Martin a "tragic situation".

But he emphasised that officers of the Sanford police department were "prohibited from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time".

Mr Martin was unarmed and on his way home after buying sweets from a local shop, his parents say.

Transcripts of phone calls released by police indicate that Mr Zimmerman called the police after seeing Mr Martin, describing him as "real suspicious".

The recordings suggest the police dispatcher told Mr Zimmerman not to pursue the teenager.

Mr Zimmerman has said he shot Mr Martin to defend himself after the teenager attacked him.

Details of the confrontation remain unclear.

Florida's self-defence law, enacted in 2005 and known as "stand your ground", gives people scope to use deadly force rather than retreat during a fight.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17479308

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:55 pm
by rubato
It's Florida. Long history of racism and whites murdering blacks with no consequence.

yrs,
rubato

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:02 am
by Gob
US President Barack Obama has said the "tragedy" of an unarmed black teenager shot dead in Florida should prompt some national soul-searching.

The death of Trayvon Martin, 17, gunned down by a neighbourhood watchman, who was not charged as he claimed self-defence, has sparked outrage.

"If I had a son he would look like Trayvon," President Obama told reporters at the White House.

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:46 am
by Econoline
Now let me see if I've got this right about the "Stand Your Ground Law" in Florida (and apparently in a few other states?)....

You can kill someone on the street--even if they're unarmed--and if there are no witnesses to contradict you, you can just tell the police that you "felt threatened"...and you won't even be arrested????? :loon



(Oh, wait, I guess that only works if you're white and your victim is black? Well, even so....)

WTF were the Florida legislators thinkingsmoking when they passed this law????? :arg

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:01 am
by Crackpot
Actualy the guy is hispanic and just about everyone but the sheiff thinks this really isn't a case for "stand your ground"

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:08 am
by Econoline
Crackpot wrote:[...]just about everyone but the she[r]iff[...]
I'd say that's a pretty significant exception...

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:16 am
by Crackpot
he's recently recused himself so we'll see what happens. the guy definitely isn't fit to wear a badge.

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:18 am
by Gob
Fox News Channel commentator Geraldo Rivera said on Friday that the hoodie an unarmed black teenager wore when he was killed in Florida is as much responsible for his death as the man who shot him.

Image

The veteran TV personality, speaking on Fox & Friends, waded in with an opinion on the shooting of Trayvon Martin, a story that has attracted attention across America over the past month. He later acknowledged that his comments were "politically incorrect".

People wearing hooded sweatshirts are often going to be perceived as a menace, Rivera said.

"I'll bet you money that if he didn't have that hoodie on, that nutty neighbourhood watch guy wouldn't have responded in that violent and aggressive way," Rivera said.

Of Martin, Rivera said, "God bless him, he was an innocent kid, a wonderful kid." But he said the case should be a warning to parents to watch what their children should wear.

"If you dress like a hoodlum eventually some schmuck is going to take you at your word," he wrote in a commentary posted on Friday on the website Fox News Latino.

Hundreds of people had posted messages on Rivera's Facebook page by Friday afternoon, the overwhelming majority of them negative about Rivera's comments.

Rivera compared his own comments to those of fellow Fox analyst Juan Williams, who was fired by National Public Radio in 2010 for saying on Fox that he gets nervous when he sees people on a plane with clothing that identifies them as Muslim.

"No one black, brown or white can honestly tell me that seeing a kid of colour with a hood pulled over his head doesn't generate a certain reaction - sometimes scorn, often menace," Rivera wrote in his commentary.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/hoodie-had- ... z1q0Lfg3Qr


Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:25 am
by Scooter
What next, the clothes women wear are as much to blame for their rapes as their rapists?

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:16 am
by BoSoxGal
We've come a long way, baby.

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 2:31 pm
by Lord Jim
It's an ugly business, for sure, and there are many snipets of information available (the fact that the cops didn't test Zimmerman for alcohol or drugs, his apparent racial slur...Latinos can be racists too...) that make the initial decision to arbitrarily declare this to be a case of self defense without any further investigation seem highly questionable.

But now we that there is new lead DA, and both federal and state investigations scrutinizing this, it should be the time to step back and let the legal process take its course....

That of course doesn't mean that individual people aren't perfectly free to express whatever personal conclusions that the partial information available and their own preconceptions lead them to if they choose; it's a free country.

However, that having been said, over the past few days I have been appalled at the recklessly irresponsible ways that some public figures, (I saw a Florida Congresswoman yesterday suggest that Zimmerman needs to be arrested "for his own protection" to cite just one of the worst examples) and some in the media have been trying exploit this tragedy and even encourage unrest.

Among the worst offenders are the pundits on the psuedo news cable network MSNBC, which over the past three days seems to have made whipping this into a frenzy it's top ratings gaining strategy.

Three days ago, I watched Lawerence O'Donnell, and Al Sharpton (More about Sharpton in a moment) on O'Donnell's show "interview" (I put interview in quotes; it was more a harangue session) The Sanford Florida City Manager, Norton Bonaparte Jr.

Mr. Bonaparte Jr., himself an African American, came across as a very methodical and responsible man, determined to pursue this in a lawful way. O'Donnell and Sharpton came across like a pair of howling baboons, throwing their feces, baring their teeth and beating their chests, cutting him off and shouting him down for not meeting their demands.

How dare this man not fire the police chief and arrest Zimmerman immediately! How DARE he! How dare he insist on getting all the facts and not giving in to the anger of the community and the demands of the media rabble rousers !

Sharpton even went so far as to essentially threaten Bonaparte Jr. with a riot, telling the City Manager that if he didn't meet these demands he would be facing "civil unrest" and informing him in the same breath that he, Sharpton, (the un-elected, unappointed attention whore who had decided to anoint himself The Grand Protector of Sanford Florida...without question he's been the most irresponsible of a long list of irresponsible actors) would be coming to town....

The next day Mr. Bonaparte Jr. was subjected to similar bullying on MSNBC by the insufferable Andrea Mitchell, who was sneering and condescending, and absolutely incredulous that this man would take his responsibility to to the laws and procedures of his community seriously, and not simply buckle to the demands of herself and the rest of her New York based lynch mob justice inspiring MSNBC colleagues...

These two instances would have been bad enough, but I have MSNBC on in the background quite a bit while I'm working, and the drumbeat of irresponsible statements and misinformation that was (and still is) being churned out by that trash factory about this has been pretty much 24/7...

The one good thing that can be said is that almost no one actually watches that ersatz news outlet ,(I do, primarily for the comedy benefit; but there's been nothing funny about what they've been up to the past few days) if their programming were widely watched, Sanford Florida would probably be in flames.

ETA:

BTW, the next time I hear anyone...anyone at all...in this blizzard of wall-to-wall coverage that MSNBC has had on this mention the fact that Zimmerman is Latino, will be the first time.

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:14 pm
by Lord Jim
Re: the Florida "Stand your ground law"

First, I'd like to ask those who are horrified by this law, what their position was when the exact same law was used a couple of months ago to justify giving a walk to a teen who stabbed another teen to death...(stabbing him 12 times)

Second, I've been doing a little research into this and apparently the Florida law differs from most other Stand Your Ground statutes, in that in most case a legal proceeding is automatically triggered to determine the validity of the claim, and police officers at the scene are not permitted to automatically accept it, based on their own discretion.

It seems to me that this is a change in the law that Florida legislators should consider.

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:08 pm
by BoSoxGal
The evidence in that case was that the teen had clearly been threatened, but tried to run away from the threat; it wasn't until the threat chased him down and hit him in the back of the head that he turned and stood his ground.

AND, he was charged with murder and the issues were resolved in a court of law.


Here, though the 911 call clearly established that Zimmerman was cozily, safely sitting in his car and was told NOT to confront the 'suspicious' (read: black man I don't know in my neighborhood) individual, police are on the way - he exits the vehicle, confronts the kid and shoots him.

It's outrageous that a basic investigation to determine his BAC and/or evidence of drug use wasn't conducted, that he wasn't taken into custody and examined for evidence of assault on his person, etc. That his story was just accepted as fact.

Outrageous, even in light of a 'stand your ground' law.

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:09 pm
by Lord Jim
Here's something I'd like to know the answer to....

The 911 call clearly has Zimmerman admitting that he was following the guy....

Which would seem by definition to make him the aggressor and thus the Stand Your Ground law would be inapplicable...

But the police have indicated that the crime scene does not support that he was following the young man at the time the shooting took place...

By which I assume they mean that he wasn't shot in the back...

So if you're following someone, and for whatever reason they turn around....maybe Zimmerman called out to the guy, maybe he turned around to find out why he was being followed, whatever....

Is it the position of the Sanford police that at that point, the pursuer is no longer the aggressor?

That doesn't seem to make sense to me....

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:10 pm
by Lord Jim
Okay BSG, then your problem isn't with the law per se...

Fair enough.

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:24 pm
by Crackpot
I think the biggest issue is that the "stand your ground " statute is being used as this bozo's shield.

Re: Suspicious minds.

Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:15 pm
by Gob
Isn't calling the law "stand your ground", an open invite to "gunfight at the OK corral" type events? Is that it's official title, if so what moron came up with that one?