Plan B Forum

So I was at our neighborhood Lucky's earlier this evening, and I noticed a new sign next to the self check-out lines...

"In Compliance With California Law, No Alcoholic Beverages"....

At first I thought that was a little odd, but then I thought; well, they've got one person there watching four registers, it's right near the exit, maybe they think some kid is going to jam them and run out with some booze...

But I got to talking with a lady who works there who I've known for years, and asked her about it, and she said:

Her: Well it's because a lot of people get upset when we ask them for ID, and we don't want to be standing over there by ourselves having to deal with it

Me: Yeah I can understand that; but imagine it's the same problem in the regular check out lines...

Her: But it's gotten a lot worse since we don't have to just card the person buying alcohol; we have to card everyone who's with them..

Me: Excuse me?

Her:We don't have to just card the person buying alcohol; we have to card everyone who's with them...

Me: That's what I thought you said....How does that make any sense...

Her: Well, the idea is that if a person who's of legal age is buying alcohol, but they're with people who aren't of legal age, they're probably going to drink it with the people who are underage...

Me: (Beginning to feel like I've walked into a Bob Newhart episode) well...uhh...yeah...that would seem to make sense...

But...uhh...how exactly is this law supposed to stop this from happening? I mean if a group of people, one of whom is of legal age to buy alcohol, walks into a store, with two or three of their friends who aren't of legal age, and the store clerk cards all of them, wouldn't they probably figure out that all they need to do is go into another store and have the ones who are underage wait outside, or come in separately?

Her: I agree it doesn't make any sense...

Me: I suppose it will stop those who are too stupid to figure something that obvious out from drinking, and I guess it's a good thing if people that dumb aren't consuming alcohol....But I'd guess that's probably a very small number of people....

What about adults with children? Since I've got my daughter with me, will they allow me to buy alcohol along with the rest of my groceries, or are they card her when we hit the checkout line, and not sell it to me because she isn't 21? (Tati starts laughing...so does my friend)

Her: No, we're not going to do that

Me: Why not, isn't the principle the same? One person who's of legal age to buy alcohol with another who isn't of legal age?

Her: Jim, now you're just trying to be difficult. (She looks at Tati, and Tati looks back at her, and they both nod)

Me: Margie, I know you don't make the rules, and I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but this is an absolutely insane law. It's making your life difficult because you have to enforce it, it just pisses off people who can legally buy alcohol, and it won't stop one single person who's underage from drinking. It doesn't accomplish one single positive thing....

So when I got home I did some Googling....I had assumed this was just some crazy nutjob California thing that had been spewed up mindlessly from our social engineering control freak lefty legislature.... they frequently pass things without thinking them through...hell, they pass things without thinking at all....

But nay nay....

This unbelievably stupid accomplish-nothing-but-make-the-law-a-joke law has been passed by a number of state legislatures....

Personally, I feel that there is more than enough in our legal and political systems that invite contempt, cynicism, and ridicule, without passing laws that demand contempt, cynicism, and ridicule....

Personally, I feel that there is more than enough in our legal and political systems that invite contempt, cynicism, and ridicule, without passing laws that demand contempt, cynicism, and ridicule....

"Don't attribute to conspiracy or malevolence something that can be explained adequately by ignorance or incompetence".

Yep. That about sums it up.

Lord Jim wrote:Personally, I feel that there is more than enough in our legal and political systems that invite contempt, cynicism, and ridicule, without passing laws that demand contempt, cynicism, and ridicule....

Don't be selfish Jim. Think of the rest of the world!

We are much more enlightened in Pennsylvania.

The State owns all the liquor stores. Kids never drink in this state. Doesn't happen.

We are much safer than other less-sophisticated places.

Just waking up here...

Let me see if I get this right.

A man or woman (over 21) walks in with their kids.

The kids get carded?

WTF!

I would think it would be more discretion than requirement (like so many LAWS).

If a person (male in this case) is purchasing adult beverages and there are some elderly (not quite drinking ageish) tag a longs and the fella didn't look remotely avuncular, weeelllll....

A man or woman (over 21) walks in with their kids.

The kids get carded?

WTF!

Actually Dale, my friend who works at Lucky's told me that they are not going to do that;

Though it seems to me the logic of the law would seem to make that a possible scenario....

The OP just goes to show how a little ignorance about the law becomes a clusterfuck of misunderstanding, idiocy and nonsense. For example:

Lord Jim wrote:So I was at our neighborhood Lucky's earlier this evening, and I noticed a new sign next to the self check-out lines...

"In Compliance With California Law, No Alcoholic Beverages"....

At first I thought that was a little odd, but then I thought; well, they've got one person there watching four registers, it's right near the exit, maybe they think some kid is going to jam them and run out with some booze...

But I got to talking with a lady who works there who I've known for years, and asked her about it, and she said:

Her: Well it's because a lot of people get upset when we ask them for ID, and we don't want to be standing over there by ourselves having to deal with it

This is patently false; the ban on alcohol sales at self-service check-outs has nothing to do with "people getting upset" and "standing over there by ourselves." It is because self-service checkouts were seen to present an opportunity for minors to purchase alcohol:

California Governor Jerry Brown has signed a law banning alcohol sales at self-checkout aisles. Starting January 1, 2012, anyone who buys alcohol must pay a cashier, according to the Los Angeles Times.

Assemblywoman Fiona Ma, who authored the bill, said it will protect against minors obtaining alcohol illegally. The legislation was supported by law enforcement groups and Mothers Against Drunk Driving.

Proponents of the bill cited a study conducted last year by the Center for Alcohol and Drug Studies at San Diego State University that concluded the growing number of self-checkout options at supermarkets is a potential source of alcohol for minors. Critics of the law said unions will use it to fight labor-saving technology.

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger vetoed a similar bill.

(Emphases added.)
http://www.drugfree.org/join-together/a ... out-aisles

Lord Jim wrote: Me: Yeah I can understand that; but imagine it's the same problem in the regular check out lines...

Her: But it's gotten a lot worse since we don't have to just card the person buying alcohol; we have to card everyone who's with them..

Me: Excuse me?

Her:We don't have to just card the person buying alcohol; we have to card everyone who's with them...

Again this is patently false. Alcohol sales are regulated by the California Business and Professions Code, s 25657 et seq. I looked through the statute and found absolutely no such requirement. Go ahead and look for yourself.

I don't know what kind of googling you did, Jim, but the Industry Advisory issued by the California ABC specifically states:

Licensees are often presented with many different and varied forms of
identification. This Industry Advisory is not intended to address every situation
that a licensee may face in the normal operation of their business. Rather, it is
intended to offer some general guidance. It is ultimately up to individual licensees
to establish appropriate house policies and training programs to assure compliance
with the law, and protect their license privilege.

(Emphasis added.)
http://www.abc.ca.gov/trade/Industry%20 ... -16-09.pdf

So this "card everyone requirement" is not part of any statute, regulation or other law, but is simply the house policy at your Lucky's.

Lord Jim wrote:Personally, I feel that there is more than enough in our legal and political systems that invite contempt, cynicism, and ridicule, without passing laws that demand contempt, cynicism, and ridicule....

People like to blame the law and politicians for their own idiocy and ignorance.

At my local Lucky market they only recently stopped allowing people to buy alcohol at the self serve checkout. I figured that it was probably to prevent sales to under aged people.

They also have a policy to ask for a photo ID from anyone that looks under 35 years old. After being asked for my ID so often I finally decided to pin my driver's license over my shirt pocket whenever shopping there.

Uh I missed the "self" in check out

I won't patronize a supermarket with self-service check outs.

There are NONE where I live (Antioch) but where my daughter lives (Pleasnton) there are a few.

Why take away jobs from people?

And.............if I were to use one of these contraptions, would my groceries be any cheaper?

NO!

I would willingly pay MORE to use self-checkout. I would HAPPLIY pay a premium for the convenience. I shop where I do ENTIRELY because they have self checkout (and even better, they have scan-as-you-shop). The less I have to deal with the marginally-sentient stoners (do they grow them in vats in the back room?), the happier I am.

jarl---don't you uusually find those same stoners, not to mention technophobes (often senior citizens) still get ahead of you in the line and tie up the self checkout scanners. That's been my experience--oftent these checkouts are not a lot faster.

The self-check at my local grocery store usually takes longer than the fast/funny/cheerful checker whose check-out line I hope to find myself in. I'd much rather deal with her than a machine!

Big RR wrote:jarl---don't you usually find those same stoners, not to mention technophobes (often senior citizens) still get ahead of you in the line and tie up the self checkout scanners. That's been my experience--oftent these checkouts are not a lot faster.

No, because there is ALWAYS more than one self-scan checkout. (They usually have four, though sometimes only 3 are open.) If there is a stoner or a moron at one, I use a different one. With Stop & Shop's ScanIt, I can check out a full cart of groceries in less than three minutes.