Plan B Forum

LINK to NY Times article.

Scary. I truly wonder if the best thing to do might be putting him down like a rabid dog.

Edit: link fixed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/magaz ... wanted=all to NY Times article.

Interesting study.

Mitt Romney?

If he really is 'born that way' does that mean that god makes sociopaths? For what purpose?

The evidence suggests that 1-2% of the population are born with "anti-social personality disorder"; what this child is an extreme example of. A fact which can be explained by natural selection but a little tough to reconcile with special creation and a benign god.

yrs,
rubato

So is cancer; do we really need to throw the God question in the mix of this issue?

Good piece in the OP; I've read a great deal on the subject of psychopathy in recent years in conjunction with my fascination with true crime.

The child in the OP story is a good example of why I make peace with my barrenness; the parents sound like really decent people, and yet they birthed this monster who brings very little 'joy or happiness' to his parents in the process of raising him, and who may pose a serious risk of harm to both parents & siblings. Imagine the horror!

If one is lucky enough to have healthy kids of decent character, one has to constantly worry, knowing they will navigate a world full of everything from psychopaths like this kid to the average thug.

I think it will be a great thing if at some point in the future our society figures out how to weed such people out and eliminate them from polite society. At least average thugs can be rehabilitated; psychopaths can't be.

The Inuit have a word for such people, and a way of dealing with them:

Most psychopaths are male, although the reasons for this sex difference are unknown. Psychopathy seems to be present in both Western and non-Western cultures, including those that have had minimal exposure to media portrayals of the condition. In a 1976 study anthropologist Jane M. Murphy, then at Harvard University, found that an isolated group of Yupik-speaking Inuits near the Bering Strait had a term (kunlangeta) they used to describe “a man who … repeatedly lies and cheats and steals things and … takes sexual advantage of many women—someone who does not pay attention to reprimands and who is always being brought to the elders for punishment.” When Murphy asked an Inuit what the group would typically do with a kunlangeta, he replied, “Somebody would have pushed him off the ice when nobody else was looking.”

Meanwhile, the article discusses what could be hereditary factors, as well as others, because as is said in the social work community,
"It's easier to build a child than repair an adult."

...this said from the child of a likely psychopath. I think we've evolved past tribal society methods.


In your fastination with True Crime, it may interest you to know that a fellow psychopathic parent survivor with great insight, has perhaps solved the Black Dahlia killing?

As the article mentions, and countless other resources confirm, the general consensus of the psychiatric/psychology community is that adult psychopaths are not treatable.

Likely the studies will eventually bear out that true child psychopaths aren't, either.

At which point, I'm all for warehousing them, if tossing them off the ice seems too unkind.

Since growing up with a psychopath clearly harms a child even if s/he doesn't necessarily end up also a psychopath, perhaps sterilizing them isn't a bad idea, either.

Honestly...kindest thing to do might be to euthanize them.

(edit: fix typos)

Extracted from the article;

“I said: ‘Michael, remember the brainstorming we did yesterday? All you have to do is take your thoughts from that and turn them into sentences, and you’re done!’ He’s still screaming bloody murder, so I say, ‘Michael, I thought we brainstormed so we could avoid all this drama today.’ He stopped dead, in the middle of the screaming, turned to me and said in this flat, adult voice, ‘Well, you didn’t think that through very clearly then, did you?’ ”

“We have bookshelves full of these books — ‘The Defiant Child’, ‘The Explosive Child,’ ” she told me. “All these books with different strategies, and we try them, and sometimes they seem to work for a few days, but then it goes right back to how it was.”

We’ve had so many people tell us so many different things,” Anne said. “Oh, it’s A.D.D. — oh, it’s not. It’s depression — or it’s not. You could open the DSM and point to a random thing, and chances are he has elements of it. He’s got characteristics of O.C.D. He’s got characteristics of sensory-integration disorder. Nobody knows what the predominant feature is, in terms of treating him. Which is the frustrating part.”

And when she grew touchy about parenting strategies — Anne favors structure and strict rules; Miguel is inclined to be lenient —

“No, Daddy! I have a greater bond with you than I do with Mommy!”

Am I alone in thinking that what you have here is a kid with some behavioural problems, who has had his head screwed by parents who have played at psychology, tried bits and bobs of whatever has floated by their attention, tried many many different psychological tricks on the kid, which has resulted in the kid being far more screwy* than he should be?



*DSM IV 298.133**





**Don't bother, I made it up.

You neglected to add "NOS"....Gob.

Am I alone in thinking that what you have here is a kid with some behavioural problems, who has had his head screwed by parents who have played at psychology, tried bits and bobs of whatever has floated by their attention, tried many many different psychological tricks on the kid, which has resulted in the kid being far more screwy* than he should be?

Well, that's one theory...

Here's mine:

LJ - I'm trying to ignore your posts; quit tempting me with humor.

As to your point, Gob - I don't think insightful parents who take the time to educate themselves on parenting strategies and developmental/behavioral issues can drive their child to psychopathic behavior.

Given your background, I'll assume you're being facetious.

bigskygal wrote::

As to your point, Gob - I don't think insightful parents who take the time to educate themselves on parenting strategies and developmental/behavioral issues can drive their child to psychopathic behavior.

Given your background, I'll assume you're being facetious.

Not at all. In the same way as doctors get fed up with "Dr Google" clients, one of the banes of my life is "Dr Google" parents. They undermine and sabotage the therapeutic process by insisting they have found the "cure" for their child and insisting we find the latest fad therapy for their kid on the taxpayers buck. These people smack of that to me, look at the language the kid is using, he’s already wrapped up in therapy speak.

I may, I’m happy to admit, be doing them a great disservice, and I have no doubt the kid needs help, but that is the “flavour” I get from the article.


Here is an example of what I face;

Writing a tribunal report for the magistrates, to get a clientinvoluntary admitted.

On 12/1/11 Client JB's parents contacted our service saying they could no longer cope with their son's behaviour. We attended the home, and assessed him as psychotic. We took him to the ward where he was seen by a consultant. The client was admitted to the psychiatric ward. Two days later he absconded from the ward, and run home. Parents contacted us to say they no longer wanted him to have any contact with mental health services, as they now believe his condition can be best treated by acupuncture and massage.

On 22/2/11 Client JB's parents contacted our service saying they could no longer cope with their son's behaviour. We attended the home, and assessed him as psychotic. We took him to the ward where he was seen by a consultant. The client was admitted to the psychiatric ward. Two days later he absconded from the ward, and run home. Parents contacted us to say they no longer wanted him to have any contact with mental health services, as they now believe his condition can be best treated by Reiki and naturopathy.


On 23/4/11 Client JB's parents contacted our service saying they could no longer cope with their son's behaviour. We attended the home, and assessed him as psychotic. We took him to the ward where he was seen by a consultant. The client was admitted to the psychiatric ward. Two days later he absconded from the ward, and run home. Parents contacted us to say they no longer wanted him to have any contact with mental health services, as they now believe his condition can be best treated by fish oil and herbs.

On 12/6/11 Client JB's parents contacted our service saying they could no longer cope with their son's behaviour. We attended the home, and assessed him as psychotic. We took him to the ward where he was seen by a consultant. The client was admitted to the psychiatric ward. Two days later he absconded from the ward, and run home. Parents contacted us to say they no longer wanted him to have any contact with mental health services, as they now believe his condition can be best treated by a chiropracter and meditation.
Repeat until you run out of paper.

Fair enough, but the books she has on the shelf are widely recommended to literate parents by child psychologists, and if I recall the article, this mum has a degree in child psychology and/or development. Hardly your average nutter parents, and they're embracing mainstream child psychology/psychiatry in seeking treatment - not homeopathic crap (I threw that in the mix for rubato).

I get your point but don't see it in this scenario as you obviously do.

Anne, the mother also is;

A former elementary-school teacher

A former elementary-school teacher with a degree in child psychology, Anne admitted feeling frustrated despite her training.

edited: to give loCA the benefit of the doubt.

bigskygal wrote: and if I recall the article, this mum has a degree in child psychology and/or development.

The worse kind. If we get a referral who's parent are "in the job" we’ll fight for another clinician to case manage them. Doubly so if the parent is a social worker!

I get your point but don't see it in this scenario as you obviously do.

Not a problem, my alarm bells are always set ringing if the parents AND the kid speak psych babble, as I say, it's only the flavour I get from the report. I wouldn’t stake my wages on me being any more right than anyone else here. (With a couple of exceptions )

...and your job is what, again?


Juss askin'.

loCAtek wrote:...and your job is what, again?


Juss askin'.

How about you don't juss ask, even with the winky.