Plan B Forum

Sometimes a clear picture of reality suggests the solution all by itself. 1 out of 4 working people make only $20,000/ yr, barely above the poverty level:


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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505144_162- ... e-country/




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April 23, 2012 7:00 AM

Research shows the US is a low wage country

By Mark Thoma

(MoneyWatch) Recent research from John Schmitt of the Center for Economic Policy Research shows that the US leads developed countries in the share of workers earning low wages. The research also shows that increased wage polarization over the last several decades is one of the reasons for the large share of low wage-work in the US.

The bars in this graph represent the share of workers in low wage work, where low wage work is defined as employees earning less than 2/3 of the median wage (approximately $10 per hour or $20,000 per year). In this category, the US leads among developed nations:

... "

In France the minimum wage is set as a fixed percentage of the median. Good idea?

yrs,
rubato

What is the average age of the "low wage" workers?

What percentage of them is head of household?

One cannot help but note a few of the "better" countries by this measure, e.g., Greece, Italy, Spain, and Portugal. Hmmm. Makes you wonder whether it measures anything meaningful at all.

If the U.S., for example, raised its minimum wage to $15.00/hr, we would double the unemployment rate, but show up very nicely in this graph.

But I suppose in rubato's mind, we would be better off.

Quite noticeable that the graph shows pretty much the same order as would one of decent places to live in.... with the possible exception of swapping Ireland for NZ

In France the minimum wage is set as a fixed percentage of the median. Good idea?

Why yes, it's a splendid idea!

France’s unemployment rate rose in the first quarter as companies eliminated jobs in the face of faltering economic growth, posing a challenge to newly elected President Francois Hollande.

About 10.0 percent of the population was unemployed, up from 9.8 in the previous three months, according to International Labour Organization standards, national statistics office Insee in Paris said today. Excluding France’s overseas territories, the rate was 9.6 percent, compared with a median forecast of 9.5 percent in a Bloomberg News survey of five economists.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-0 ... -with-cuts

Let's get that US unemployment rate up into double digits!

One question you have to ask when thinking about making society 'better' is 'what motive do people have to engage in society honestly?' While it is true that some people can be frightened into avoiding crime even the regular application of the death penalty for minor crimes in Victorian England did not reduce crime close to modern levels so it is too weak a motive by quite a lot. And very expensive. And some people will do the right thing because they are trying to live up to a std of morality derived personally or dictated by their religion but the examples of behavior even in purported religious communities (with exceptions for the Amish, Mormons and a few others) are so thoroughly corrupt that we can't rely on that either.

What seems to work the best in practice is to have the rewards for engaging honestly and supporting your self by legal and non-anti-social means be great enough that the difference in quality of life and personal improvement between working and not working convinces most people that it is a good bargain.

We have already done the experiment of making people at the bottom more and more miserable, frightened and insecure and it failed.

yrs,
rubato

And what are the employment rates for all of the countries with fewer low-paid workers?

I don't have time to do all the rest, gotta work.

Austria …….. 3.9
Australia …….. 4.9
Germany …….. 5.4
Belgium …….. 7.4
Denmark …….. 7.6


France, like England ,Greece, Ireland and Spain has used the "all austerity" method in the recent collapse and their unemployment rate has suffered accordingly. All of the countries who have used a stimulus have had unemployment go down.

European "austerity":

"Europe, governments collectively spent 44.8% of GDP in 2000. Today it is 49.2%. "

Golly, that looks more like out-of-control spending than "austerity" to me.

Wow I'm surprised China nor Russia have low wage earners...

France, like England ,Greece, Ireland and Spain has used the "all austerity" method in the recent collapse and their unemployment rate has suffered accordingly.

Wrong again, Wrong Way...

The French unemployment rate has been higher, (usually much higher) than the US unemployment rate for decades:

http://www.google.com/publicdata/explor ... &ind=false

I thought the Greeks were trying to sell Greece...

Well Greece is the word, it's the word that you heard.
Greece is the time is the place is the motion.
Greece is the way we are feeling.

Greece =

The claim that higher wages (or a smaller proportion in low-wage jobs) causes higher unemployment is disproven by even a brief look at the data:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... yment_rate

Spain …….. …….. 24.3
Greece …….. …….. 22.6
Ireland …….. …….. 14.2
Italy …….. …….. 10.2
France …….. …….. 10.2
United States …….. 8.2
United Kingdom …….. 8.1
Denmark …….. …….. 7.6
Finland …….. …….. 7.6
Belgium …….. …….. 7.4
Canada …….. …….. 7.2
New Zealand …….. 6.7
*Iceland …….. …….. 6.6
Germany …….. …….. 5.4
Netherlands …….. 5.2
Australia …….. …….. 4.9
Japan …….. …….. 4.5
Austria …….. …….. 3.9
Norway …….. …….. 3





If you are trying to honestly understand you will begin by being honest with the data and only making defensible arguments.

yrs,
rubato

* Not in the other data set. Included just because I've always liked Iceland.