Terror And Murder In Colorado

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Lord Jim
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Terror And Murder In Colorado

Post by Lord Jim »

Mass Shooting at Colo. Movie Theater, 12 People Dead

A lone gunman dressed in riot gear burst into a movie theater in Aurora, Colo., at a midnight showing of the Batman film "The Dark Knight Rises" and opened fire, killing at least 12 people and injuring at least 50.

The suspect, James Holmes, 24, of Aurora, was caught by police in the parking lot of the Century 16 Movie Theaters, nine miles outside Denver, after police began receiving dozens of 911 calls at 12:39 a.m. MT. Police said the man appeared to have acted alone.

Witnesses in the movie theater said Holmes crashed into the auditorium through an emergency exit about 30 minutes into the film, set off a smoke bomb, and began shooting. Holmes stalked the aisles of the theater, shooting at random, as panicked movie-watchers in the packed auditorium tried to escape, witnesses said.

"The suspect throws tear gas in the air, and as the tear gas appears he started shooting," said Lamar Lane, who was watching the midnight showing of the movie with his brother. "It was very hard to breathe. I told my brother to take cover. It took awhile. I started seeing flashes and screaming, I just saw blood and people yelling and a quick glimpse of the guy who had a gas mask on. I was pushed out. There was chaos, we started running."

Police said 10 victims died inside the theater, while dozens of others were taken to local hospitals, including a child as young as 6 years old.

Holmes was wearing a bullet-proof vest and riot helmet and carrying a gas mask, rifle, and handgun, when he was apprehended, according to police. Holmes mentioned having explosives stored, leading police to evacuate his entire North Aurora apartment complex and search the buildings early this morning.

Witnesses watching movies in theaters next to the one where the shooting took place said bullets tore through the theater walls and they heard screaming.

One witness said she saw people dropping to the ground after the gunshots began.

"We were maybe 20 or 30 minutes into the movie and all you hear, first you smell smoke, everybody thought it was fireworks or something like that, and then you just see people dropping and the gunshots are constant," witness Christ Jones told ABC's Denver affiliate KMGH. "I heard at least 20 to 30 rounds within that minute or two."

A man who talked to a couple who was inside the theater told ABC News, "They got up and they started to run through the emergency exit, and that when she turned around, she said all she saw was the guy slowly making his way up the stairs and just firing at people, just picking random people," he said. "The gunshot continued to go on and on and then after we didn't hear anything," the couple told the man, "we finally got up and there was people bleeding, there was people obviously may have been actually dead or anything, and we just ran up out of there, there was chaos everywhere."

Witnesses and victims were taken to Gateway High School for questioning.

Hundreds of police and FBI agents are involved in the investigation. A senior official who is monitoring the situation in Washington said that early guidance based on the early snapshot of this man's background indicated that this act does not appear to be linked to radical terrorism or anything related to Islamic terrorism.

Though police have said that they believe the shooter was acting alone, they checked all cars in the parking lot and cleared thge area near the theater.

In a statement, President Obama said, "Michelle and I are shocked and saddened by the horrific and tragic shooting in Colorado. Federal and local law enforcement are still responding, and my administration will do everything that we can to support the people of Aurora in this extraordinarily difficult time. We are committed to bringing whoever was responsible to justice, ensuring the safety of our people, and caring for those who have been wounded."

A man who was in the adjacent theater with his son, said that the commotion began as one of the action scenes was starting up.

"These guys came through, and they say someone's shooting," he said. "I thought, 'Oh, they must have heard the fireworks, you know ... I had no idea. And then the alarms started to go off in the theater.'"

An explosive device was also found inside the movie house. Police are not sure whether the device, which investigators are calling a bomb, was already in place or whether it was thrown into the crowd.

Ambulances rushed to the scene as audience members fled the theater.

Investigators are now interviewing friends and associates of the suspect to get a sense of the man's background
.

http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-borders-re ... 02669.html

The death toll is now up to 15, with so many wounded it is almost certain to go higher....

It seems to me this sick bastard's objective was fame; which is why he didn't kill himself or go down shooting (in fact the bullet proof vest suggests he was taking precautions to avoid getting killed )after his murder spree like many of these scumbags do. He wants to be around to get off on his notoriety.

The only good thing that can be said about this is that at least Colorado has the Death Penalty....
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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

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I woke up to this on NPR: listening now.

So awful.

eta: I hadn't read your commentary, LJ, when I first posted.

Now I have, I feel compelled to comment that it's pretty damned arrogant for you to declare with such certainty the suspect's motive, when medical personnel are still treating the wounded and LE are still in the initial stages of investigation.

Talking about the death penalty at such a moment is also more than a bit reactionary.

But then I'm guessing you would execute Jared Loughner summarily, without even the pesky business of a trial.
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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

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Talking about the death penalty at such a moment is also more than a bit reactionary.
I'll freely admit that I am quite sorry that the cops couldn't have found a reason to take a head shot at the man who just murdered 15 (and counting) people in a movie theater, frustrate his desire for a a public platform, and save the state the cost of a trial...

And I'll make NO apologizes for that....
I feel compelled to comment that it's pretty damned arrogant for you to declare with such certainty the suspect's motive, when medical personnel are still treating the wounded and LE are still in the initial stages of investigation.
I stated my opinion, and cited the evidence that I believe supports it...

Which is what I usually do around here...

If you don't like it, you can

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BTW, I just heard Cliff Van Zandt, the noted FBI criminal profiler, give an analysis nearly identical to mine on MSNBC.... : :fu :nana
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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

Post by BoSoxGal »

Without question the events are horrorifying. Still, we don't know anything about the mental state of James Holmes, who might be seriously mentally ill.

I'm glad that I am a prosecutor, and you are not. I can't imagine gleefully advocating summary execution as you do in your post. I concur with President Obama; we must ensure that justice is done.
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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

Post by Joe Guy »

I always enjoy reading Jim's take on things. Thoughts on current events as they unfold are what this place is about - at least some of the time.

In the mashed and hashed world of world news and politics I consider Jim to be a common tater.

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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

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Thank you for that nice compliment, Joe...

It's now being reported that the guy did in fact, (as he had claimed to police) boobytrap his apartment...

Adding that to what we already know, it would appear that this was obviously no "suddenly snapped" sort of thing...

Looks like this guy put a lot of time and thought into this, and designed the whole scenario in a way that was guaranteed to draw out and maximize media coverage....

I suspect that the cops will likely find videos he taped of himself and perhaps some lengthy writings as well...


Oh damn, there I go being arrogant again.....
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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

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And none of those things are inconsistent with serious mental illness, either.

Feel free to wallow in your self-righteous rush to judgment of others, absent much of the evidence.

I have you on ignore (which is why I hadn't read your commentary initially), and will keep you there for the sake of my idealistic belief in the better nature of my fellow citizens. We can just agree to disagree on pretty much everything.

I thank God for holding a different worldview than you and your ilk. Like the prosecutors in Norway who are arguing for the institutionalization of Anders Breivik, I would not seek to execute or imprison a seriously mentally ill person. At this point, we simply DO NOT KNOW the mental state of James Holmes, so calling for him to be shot dead short of due process disgusts me.


eta: I want to clarify that while I refuse to rush to judgment and urge the summary execution of the suspect, I am devastated by the events (have been crying about it all morning) and my heart goes out not only to the victims and the families/friends of the victims, but also to the law enforcement who responded and were charged with carrying dead and dying children and adults from the scene of the carnage.
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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

Post by Joe Guy »

bigskygal wrote:And none of those things are inconsistent with serious mental illness, either.
I don't believe anyone is stating that the guy wasn't mentally ill. What other type of person would do something like he did - other than someone who is a terrorist?

And we could probably debate whether all terrorists are mentally ill.

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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

Post by Lord Jim »

And of course there's a difference between being "mentally ill" and the legal standard for "insanity"....

Personally I hope most prosecutors understand that....
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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

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I have you on ignore (which is why I hadn't read your commentary initially), and will keep you there for the sake of my idealistic belief in the better nature of my fellow citizens.
Oh, as I have said before, by all means please do....

Presumably that will mean I will be spared your unprovoked insults (which you initiated yet again in this thread) and your neurotic, condescending follow-ups to everything I post that creates cognitive dissonance for you and your pre-determined "world view."

I'm sure there are others here who wish they could be so lucky...

I assume this will also mean I will no longer be treated to your displays of advanced Rubato Blindness Syndrome every time I take that nasty little scut to task.....

Many thanks.
Last edited by Lord Jim on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

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I certainly understand the legal standard for mental disease/defect which renders a defendant incapable of forming purposeful and knowing elements of a crime.

I'm guessing I might have a hundredfold better understanding of this issue and the applicable federal caselaw and state caselaw than his lordship.

I'm certainly knowledgable enough to understand that what an academic criminal profiler who has seen ZERO evidence posits is nothing more than pure speculation. I'm sure some here are big fans of Criminal Minds, etc. - but guess what; in real life the FBI profilers aren't always right. Not by a long shot.

Nobody posting in this thread fewer than 10 hours after the carnage can state with certainty that James Holmes was legally sane. Even if he is, it sickens me to hear advocacy for shooting him on sight without due process - let's make murderers of our law enforcement officers, eh?

Lovely sentiments from the armchair of the upper middle class conservative American.
Last edited by BoSoxGal on Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

Post by Joe Guy »

bigskygal wrote:
Lovely sentiments from the armchair of the upper middle class conservative American.
Some of the defining characteristics of the affluent is that they have strong opinions and plenty of time to express them between trips to the many bank vaults where they store all of their enormous wealth.

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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

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I certainly understand the legal standard for mental disease/defect which renders a defendant incapable of forming purposeful and knowing elements of a crime.

I'm guessing I might have a hundredfold better understanding of this issue and the applicable federal caselaw and state caselaw than his lordship.
:lol:

Well jeepers, then you'd think that you'd know that in your state of Montana, the insanity defense isn't even allowed....
Court: Insanity Defense Not a Right

By Joan Biskupic
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 29, 1994; Page A03

The Supreme Court yesterday allowed states to prohibit defendants from claiming that they were insane at the time they committed their crime.

The court, without comment from the justices, let stand a ruling from the Montana Supreme Court that said abolishing the insanity defense does not violate the Constitution. While the court's order does not apply beyond the individual case, other states could follow Montana's lead.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/lo ... 032994.htm

Nobody posting in this thread fewer than 10 hours after the carnage can state with certainty that James Holmes was legally sane.
Well we certainly could if this happened in Montana....

Since there is no such thing as legally insane there...
I certainly understand the legal standard for mental disease/defect which renders a defendant incapable of forming purposeful and knowing elements of a crime.
I question whether you are aware of the "legal standard" in the state you practice as a prosecutor in, since you say you "certainly understand" the legal standard, but give absolutely no indication in your condescending pontifications that you are aware that in your case, the "legal standard" is that this is something you would never even be legally permitted to consider as a defense. You'd think you might have a least mentioned that little fact in passing, if you were aware of it....

I certainly hope this was an oversight on your part; it would boggle the mind to think that someone could be serving as a criminal prosecutor in a state and be unaware of something so fundamental to the criminal law of that state (espeically since a landmark Supreme Court decision was also involved); but given your statements, I have to allow for that possibility.

ETA:

Because that court case was a while back I checked, and according to an article in WSJ just two days ago there is still no insanity defense allowed in Montana.
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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

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:o OMG! You GOT me!! I don't know nuthin' 'bout nuthin' re: Montana criminal law.

:loon :roll:

Only an idiot would Google for a newspaper article and then try to posit his superior knowledge of issues of mental disease/defect in the criminal law of a state where he is neither a resident, nor a licensed attorney, nor a criminal attorney.

For pity's sake, LJ, I would have expected just a bit more from you.

As it happens, I'm extensively familiar with the processes regarding mental disease/defect under the criminal law statutes of the State of Montana, where I am a duly licensed attorney and sworn prosecutor on behalf of the People.

I've both defended and prosecuted numerous cases involving mental disease/defect in the past. I'm currently prosecuting a number of such cases. In the pendency of one such case, I've consulted with one of the country's foremost experts on forensic psychiatric evalutions of criminal defendants.

FYI, we have several individuals currently on long-term forensic commitments to the Montana State Hospital pursuant to heinous criminal acts. These individuals were adjudicated incompetent to form the purposeful/knowing element of the charged offense(s) due to mental disease/defect.

Try Googling Montana Code Annotated 46-14-101, et. seq.

I'll get you started:
46-14-101. Mental disease or defect -- purpose -- definition. (1) The purpose of this section is to provide a legal standard of mental disease or defect under which the information gained from examination of the defendant, pursuant to part 2 of this chapter, regarding a defendant's mental condition is applied. The court shall apply this standard:
(a) in any determination regarding:
(i) a defendant's fitness to proceed and stand trial;
(ii) whether the defendant had, at the time that the offense was committed, a particular state of mind that is an essential element of the offense; and
(b) at sentencing when a defendant has been convicted on a verdict of guilty or a plea of guilty or nolo contendere and claims that at the time of commission of the offense for which the defendant was convicted, the defendant was unable to appreciate the criminality of the defendant's behavior or to conform the defendant's behavior to the requirements of the law.
(2) (a) As used in this chapter, "mental disease or defect" means an organic, mental, or emotional disorder that is manifested by a substantial disturbance in behavior, feeling, thinking, or judgment to such an extent that the person requires care, treatment, and rehabilitation.
(b) The term "mental disease or defect" does not include:
(i) an abnormality manifested only by repeated criminal or other antisocial behavior;
(ii) a developmental disability, as defined in 53-20-102;
(iii) drug or alcohol intoxication; or
(iv) drug or alcohol addiction.
And try not to be such a stupid arrogant ass. :lol:

PS - You will note that nowhere did I use the phrase "insanity defense" re: Montana; my edit in the prior post was a grammatical one (understand edited to understanding).

Colorado DOES utilize the insanity defense. Here's a handy cheat sheet for you:

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-pr ... tates.html
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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

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Here's a little something more to help you edumacate yourself on the state of things re: mental disease/defect in the Last Best Place:
Maintenance of an insanity defense under Montana's "abolition" of the insanity defense
Am J Psychiatry 1989;146:357-360.

Abstract
In 1979, Montana's insanity defense was replaced with the more restrictive mens rea defense, a change that has been described as an example of "abolition" of the insanity defense. The authors identified cases in which mental health was an issue in seven Montana counties for 3 years before and 3 years after the 1979 reform. They found that acquittals based on the insanity plea markedly declined, but that dismissals based on incompetence to stand trial increased substantially following the reform. They conclude that dismissal based on incompetence to stand trial became a substitute for acquittal based on the insanity plea under mens rea.
You can pay the subscription fee to read the article in whole at this site: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article ... urnalID=13

I'm sure you'll want to be more exacting in your future pronouncements on the law here. ;)
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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

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Finally, I just have to say "Fuck You" with regard to your intimations that I am incompetent to practice and prosecute under the criminal law of Montana, or any other jurisdiction.

I was educated in the criminal law by Samuel Dash and a number of other incredibly talented acting and former federal prosecutors/defenders who are renown in the field of criminal law, at one of the foremost institutions of legal education on the planet. I studied Advanced Criminal Procedure, Trial Advocacy, Evidence, etc. under these individuals.

I clerked with the Public Defender Service of the District of Columbia, one of the premier public defender organizations in the country, if not the world.

I completed the Criminal Justice Clinic at Georgetown, one of the premier criminal clinical law school programs in the country, studying with E. Barrett Prettyman LLM candidate fellows, and two of the finest criminal defense attorneys in the country, John Copacino and Abbe Smith, themselves educated at premier law schools and products of premier clinical programs.

In my post-JD professional education, I have studied at the National Institute for Trial Advocacy under premier practicing civil and criminal litigators from all over the country, I have attended numerous national CLE with the National Legal Aid and Defender Association, the National District Attorney's Association, and the US Department of Justice. I have been extensively educated here in Montana by faculty from the United States Attorney's Office, the Office of the Attorney General, and several of our Supreme Court Justices, both sitting and retired.


You can say whatever hateful bullshit you want about me, I can't stop you from doing it - but you are nothing but an arrogant, hateful bully in doing so. You can't stand to be wrong or to have your opinion challenged, apparently.

But that doesn't change the fact that I have more knowledge and understanding of the criminal law in my little finger than you will ever have in your head in your entire lifetime, and I am entirely competent to prosecute on behalf of the people of the State of Montana.

Pompous prick.
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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

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I guess you decided I didn't deserve the gift of having you ignore me...

You know BSG every time you post (which is frequently) one of these "oh look at the wonderful me" bio-infomercials, I always ask myself just who is it that you're trying to convince....

One thing has become extremely apparent to me, BSG...

You are without question one of the most (if not the most) insecure, thin skinned, and emotionally "fragile" posters on this board....

And yet you keep picking fights and tossing out unprovoked insults....

One would think that someone as insecure, thin skinned and emotionally fragile as you are would avoid gratuitously attacking people, and yet you do it all the time...

It makes me wonder if you aren't either a masochist, or (more likely) that you provoke people with insults so that when they respond you can then play the wounded indignant victim, and let loose with one of your patented ultra-defensive histrionic screeds that have become such a familiar sight on this bbs....(your post directly above this one being an excellent example of the genre)

You have played the Drama Queen on this board to an extent that would make Greta Garbo turn green with envy....

Your lengthy goodbye posts followed by your speedy returns are legendary; as are your bungee cord mood swings...

(I suspect that what's up with the goodbyes and the rapid returns is that you are so psychologically needy for re-enforcement, that you write those posts just to get all the supportive follow-up comments.)

You seem like basically a decent and good hearted person BSG, but you've obviously got some serious psychological issues that are going unaddressed....

Now I fully expect you to unload with yet more vicious defensive histrionics, but I thought it was about time that somebody stopped tiptoeing around and laid it out for you.
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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

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Ah, more nasty attacking hyperbolic bullshit lacking foundation in reality.

It was too much, I guess, to expect you to just cowboy up and admit how incredibly WRONG you were, LJ.

But anybody with half a brain can see it.

As to who is so incredibly insecure; there is something called projection in the psychiatric/psychological literature that you might want to research.

I'm very secure in my personal and professional development. You don't see me writing lengthy attacks of people on this board like you have been doing toward me in recent weeks/months whenever I have had the temerity to disagree with you.

I've defended myself against unjust attack in the past here and on CSB, but I don't write shite like the above in place of acknowledging where I've made a hugely egregious error of statement - as you have just done.

You willingness to defame my professional competence on a public bulletin board is not only disgusting, but likely actionable. I'd suggest you STFU now, because I'm done with letting such things ride. Be warned.
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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

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test

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Re: Terror And Murder In Colorado

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Lord Jim wrote:I guess you decided I didn't deserve the gift of having you ignore me...

You know BSG every time you post (which is frequently) one of these "oh look at the wonderful me" bio-infomercials, I always ask myself just who is it that you're trying to convince....

One thing has become extremely apparent to me, BSG...

You are without question one of the most (if not the most) insecure, thin skinned, and emotionally "fragile" posters on this board....

And yet you keep picking fights and tossing out unprovoked insults....

One would think that someone as insecure, thin skinned and emotionally fragile as you are would avoid gratuitously attacking people, and yet you do it all the time...

It makes me wonder if you aren't either a masochist, or (more likely) that you provoke people with insults so that when they respond you can then play the wounded indignant victim, and let loose with one of your patented ultra-defensive histrionic screeds that have become such a familiar sight on this bbs....(your post directly above this one being an excellent example of the genre)

You have played the Drama Queen on this board to an extent that would make Greta Garbo turn green with envy....

Your lengthy goodbye posts followed by your speedy returns are legendary; as are your bungee cord mood swings...

(I suspect that what's up with the goodbyes and the rapid returns is that you are so psychologically needy for re-enforcement, that you write those posts just to get all the supportive follow-up comments.)

You seem like basically a decent and good hearted person BSG, but you've obviously got some serious psychological issues that are going unaddressed....

Now I fully expect you to unload with yet more vicious defensive histrionics, but I thought it was about time that somebody stopped tiptoeing around and laid it out for you.

Additionally, LJ, that nasty post of shite above is entirely unsupported by evidence.

I'll admit I've on a number of occasions contemplated leaving the board, and just recently expressed my intention to do so. I decided not to, but this lovely exchange will have me revisiting that decision. I'm frankly getting very sick of the few nasty personalities that ruin all the rest of it for me.

Making a statement that it is clear I have SERIOUS PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUES THAT HAVE GONE UNADDRESSED is an outrageously nasty thing for you to do, in a pathetic attempt to divert attention from your own ridiculously embarrassing behavior in this thread. If it goes unremarked by others on the board, I'll have little trouble making my decision.

There is no evidence that I engage in frequent vitriolic attack on others on this board, or provoke/pick fights. There is no evidence that I have 'bungee cord mood swings'. There is no evidence that I engage in ultra-defensive histrionic screeds - I have defended myself against incredible, unsupported attack - primarily by Andrew D (at which time you wholeheartedly supported me) and now by you. I have done so by simple statement of the FACTS. I'm utterly unashamed of my excellent academic and professional resumes, and I don't see anything wrong in countering an outrageous assertion such as the one you made above questioning my professional competence with the FACTS that clearly show the unbelievability of your defamatory statement.

Funny, you defend Gob is his outrage at being defamed professionally by loCAtek, you express your own outrage and threaten legal action when Andrew D defames you, but when I defend myself against your defamatory statements, suddenly it's histrionic ultra-defensiveness? :roll:

Sad and pathetic. Why don't you just go back, read what you wrote, and make the appropriate apology? Or will you continue to 'defend' this utterly indefensible position to the bitter end?
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