Anders Breivek gets 21 years

[Grim Reaper]

Anders Behring Breivik: Norway court finds him sane

A Norwegian court has found that mass killer Anders Behring Breivik is sane and sentenced him to 21 years in jail.


Breivik admitted killing 77 people and wounding more than 240 others when he bombed central Oslo and then opened fire at an island youth camp last year.

He insisted he was sane and refused to plead guilty, seeking to justify his attacks by saying they were necessary to stop the "Islamisation" of Norway.

Prosecutors had called for him to be considered insane.

The five judges were unanimous in ruling that Breivik was sane.

He was convicted of terrorism and premeditated murder, and given the maximum sentence of 21 years' imprisonment.

However, that can be prolonged at a later date if he is deemed to remain a danger to society.

Planned attack

Delivering the verdict, Judge Wenche Elisabeth Arntzen imposed a sentence of "preventive detention," a special prison term for criminals considered dangerous to society.

She set the minimum length of imprisonment to 10 years.

Some of the survivors and relatives of his victims welcomed the verdict and the end of the trial.

"Now we won't hear about him for quite a while. Now we can have peace and quiet," Per Balch Soerensen, whose daughter was among those killed in the shootings on on Utoeya island, told Denmark's TV2.

"He doesn't mean anything to me; he is just air."

Court-appointed psychiatrists disagreed on Breivik's sanity. A first team which examined him declared him to be a paranoid schizophrenic, but the second found he was sane.

Before the verdict, Breivik said psychiatric care would be "worse than death".

He had said he would not appeal against a sanity verdict. The prosecution, which argued for insanity, could still appeal, says the BBC's Lars Bevanger, at the court in Oslo.

Breivik will serve his sentence at Oslo's high-security Ila Prison, where he has been held in isolation for most of the time since his arrest.

Initially he will be kept isolated from casual contact with other prisoners.

Breivik, 33, carried out the meticulously planned attack on 22 July 2011, wearing a fake police uniform, and methodically hunted down his victims.

He accused the governing Labour Party of promoting multiculturalism and endangering Norway's identity.

Some victims at the Labour Party youth camp on Utoeya island were shot in the head at point-blank range.

Ahead of the verdict, security barriers were put up outside the district court in Oslo.

A glass partition separates Breivik from relatives of victims in a courtroom custom-built for the trial.

Remote-controlled cameras are filming the proceedings, sending the images to courtrooms around Norway where other relatives can watch the hearing live.

Breivik's trial, which began in March and lasted for 10 weeks, heard graphic testimony from some of the survivors of his attacks.

Mohamad Hadi Hamed, 21, who is now in a wheelchair, told the court how his left arm and his left leg were amputated after he was shot by Breivik.

Another survivor, Einar Bardal, 17, described how he was trying to escape when he heard a loud bang, followed by a loud beeping noise in his head.

Experts in far-right ideology told the trial Breivik's ideas should not be seen as the ramblings of a madman.

Breivik's attacks ignited a debate about the nature of tolerance and democracy in Norway.

[dales]

Should've tied a few hundred pounds of fishing weights around him and tossed him in a fijord.

What an ASSSSSHOLE!

[Lord Jim]

Breivik admitted killing 77 people and wounding more than 240 others...

He was convicted of terrorism and premeditated murder, and given the maximum sentence of 21 years' imprisonment.

She set the minimum length of imprisonment to 10 years.

There are simply no words that I have that can adequately express my disgust and revulsion at a legal process that could render a "punishment" of this nature for a crime of such heinous dimensions, so that's all I'm going to say about it.

[Grim Reaper]

They have a review process at the end of his sentence that determines if he's been rehabilitated. Basically, as long as he holds his views, he's never leaving prison.

[Lord Jim]

They have a review process at the end of his sentence that determines if he's been rehabilitated. Basically, as long as he holds his views, he's never leaving prison.

Grim, that was my understanding when this originally happened...

That there was a mechanism under Norwegian law, that could keep this monster in prison for life..(which is of course, what at the minimum he deserves)

But this article does not seem to indicate that....the article seems to indicate that 21 years is "the maximum"...

Maybe it's just a poorly written article...

Do you have a link with more details on this?

[Scooter]

Murder (Norwegian Law):

Planned murder is punished with up to 21 years of imprisonment, regardless of the number of murder victims. Under special circumstances, like a murder of severe cruelty, mass murder, or if there is reason to believe the offender may commit murder again, additional years of imprisonment can be given. This is known as forvaring (custody). This usually takes place at a court hearing near the end of the sentence.

It sounds similar to applying for dangerous offender status in Canada - the initial sentence is imposed in accordance with the relevant criminal statute, but application can be made to extend the sentence indefinitely if the offender is deemed likely to commit another violent offense again.

[Econoline]

If there's no death penalty (and I can understand and agree with the moral, economic, and practical arguments against one) then it's ridiculous that there isn't the sentencing option of life without parole. (And no such thing as consecutive sentencing for multiple counts?????)

[Scooter]

Considering that Norway has a murder rate that is the envy of most every country in the world, it would appear that they have figured out a way to deal with murderers that is serving them well enough.

[Econoline]

Correction:

...is WAS serving them well enough.

[Scooter]

Perhaps you might have some justification for saying that when Norway's murder rate comes close to approaching yours, where barbaric punishments are experiencing such resounding success in deterring would-be murderers. Until then...

[rubato]

Proving that if you give up the frission of pleasure which the emotionally retarded have when someone is put to death you can have a society with a much lower murder rate than we do. Norway's is about 0.6 per 100,000 and ours is 4.2 per 100,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... icide_rate


yrs,
rubato

undid a mis-edit.

[Lord Jim]

Proving that if you give up the frission of pleasure which the emotionally retarded have when someone is put to death you can have a society with a much lower murder rate than we do. Norway's is about 0.6 per 100,000 and ours is 4.2 per 100,000.

And once again, this supposed "scientist" demonstrates that he does not grasp even the most basic scientific principle that an aspiring junior high school "scientist" conducting their first experiments with litmus paper readily understands...

Isolate the variable...

I have to say that it has been an ongoing source of amusement to me over the years that there are otherwise intelligent folks around here who honestly believe this can of Cheese Whiz is somehow a "bright fellow"...

[Lord Jim]

Considering that Norway has a murder rate that is the envy of most every country in the world,

Yes, but Scooter, one can think of all kinds of reasons to explain this besides having a legal system that gives a maximum 20 year sentence to somebody who murders 77 people...

Historic and cultural reasons...

Capitol Punishment was abolished in Norway in 1979, and I don't have the figures available, and I'm prepared to be proven wrong, but I'd be willing to bet that the murder rate in Norway was probably not noticeably worse in the 30 years between 1949 and 1979 than it was in the 30 years between 1979 and 2009...

And if that's the case, then there have to be other explanations for Norway's low murder rate besides their decision to give morally disgraceful sentences to mass murderers...

[Lord Jim]

Well, now I do have some numbers...

I can't copy and paste them because it's a PDF, but if you follow this link:

http://www.nsfk.org/Portals/0/nordicstats_1950-2000.pdf

And start on page 29, you will find that the homicide rate per 100,000 in Norway was nearly infinitesimal in the early 50's, then started to rise, and then took a major increase in the mid 70's and has gotten consistently worse since then...

So the 20 year maximum sentences for mass murderers = low homicide rate causal relationship theory ain't lookin' so good...

ETA:

Oh wait a minute, I know what the explanation for the increased homicide rate in Norway must be...

They elected Republicans!

[Lord Jim]

I can't believe I actually took the time to look all that stuff up...

That's what happens when you suddenly start to get your energy back at 11:00 at night after fighting bronchitis for two weeks...

[Lord Jim]

I've been sleeping 10-14 hours a day, now all of a sudden I'm wide awake and everybody else is sound asleep...

I'm thinking maybe I'll take the dogs down for a walk to the beach....

[dales]

Your last post was 12:19 am..............


Time to hit the clubs, Jim

[Lord Jim]

You know, I did take the dogs down to the beach, and now I regret it. (I hadn't been any further than the backyard in nearly two weeks...at least working for myself from home, I was still able to get some work done.)

I'm at that point in dealing with this illness where I feel a lot better, but I really haven't gotten to the point of being completely well, and I shouldn't have gone out and spent extended time in the damp cold wind....

About an hour after we got back, I started to have a major coughing fit, and then chills, and now I'm back on the NyQuil....

It's really tough (and a little frustrating) when you haven't been very active for awhile due to illness, and then your energy starts to come back and you really want to get moving, but you have to discipline yourself to continue to take it easy until you're genuinely well, or you'll get worse again....

[rubato]

Proving that if you give up the frission of pleasure which the emotionally retarded have when someone is put to death you can have a society with a much lower murder rate than we do. Norway's is about 0.6 per 100,000 and ours is 4.2 per 100,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... icide_rate


yrs,
rubato

Per usual LJ dithers incoherently; he cannot manage consecutive thought.

This post explicitly refers to the death penalty and implicitly refers to the fact that Norway does a lot of things differently; but never says anything about the 21-year maximum sentence. Some people cannot read.

And this post shows the following murder rates for Norway per 100,000 :

year …….. rate per 100,000
1957 …….. 0.2
1958 …….. 0.4
1959 …….. 0.3
1960 …….. 0.4
1961 …….. 0.2
1962 …….. 0.3
1963 …….. 0.4
1964 …….. 0.4
1965 …….. 0.1
1966 …….. 0.2
1967 …….. 0.6
1968 …….. 0.1
1969 …….. 0.2
1970 …….. 0.2
1971 …….. 0.2
1972 …….. 0.4
1973 …….. 0.6
1974 …….. 0.5
1975 …….. 0.5
1976 …….. 0.8
1977 …….. 0.7
1978 …….. 0.8
1979 …….. 0.8
1980 …….. 0.8
1981 …….. 0.7
1982 …….. 1.1
1983 …….. 0.9
1984 …….. 1
1985 …….. 0.9
1986 …….. 0.9
1987 …….. 0.9
1988 …….. 1
1989 …….. 1.5
1990 …….. 1
1991 …….. 0.9
1992 …….. 1.2
1993 …….. 1.1
1994 …….. 1.1
1995 …….. 0.7
1996 …….. 0.7
1997 …….. 0.6
1998 …….. 0.6
1999 …….. 0.8
2000 …….. 0.8

No data was reported until 1957.

When you plot the data (which I did but you cannot paste a graph here from excel) You see an increase from ca 1970 to 1992 after which there is a decrease.

Only a stupid person would fail to note that whatever they are doing is much better than what we are doing and perhaps we should learn from them? In any case it proves conclusively that a reduced penalty for capital murder does not produce a high murder rate.

Giving up the desire to torture and kill appears to help society; ignoring the borderline sociopaths is a good thing.

yrs,
ruba

[Lord Jim]

Once again Mr. Wizard demonstrates his stunning inability to read simple tables, and do basic math...

Just eyeballing those numbers (even with a fever) I can see that they back up exactly what was in the PDF report I linked to and the way I described it....

When he says "the numbers started to rise in 1970" he must be completely blind...

As I said, the numbers start out very low in the 50's; between .1-.4 per 100,000 (when capitol punishment was enforced, and presumably sentences in general were harsher)

With the exception of 1967, anyone with even one good eye can see the number remained in this range up till 1973....

Then in the mid 70's ( again, just as I said) the rate fairly abruptly rises to levels two to three times (and even more) higher than the earlier period, and there they stay.......

1976 …….. 0.8
1977 …….. 0.7
1978 …….. 0.8
1979 …….. 0.8
1980 …….. 0.8
1981 …….. 0.7
1982 …….. 1.1
1983 …….. 0.9
1984 …….. 1
1985 …….. 0.9
1986 …….. 0.9
1987 …….. 0.9
1988 …….. 1
1989 …….. 1.5
1990 …….. 1
1991 …….. 0.9
1992 …….. 1.2
1993 …….. 1.1
1994 …….. 1.1
1995 …….. 0.7
1996 …….. 0.7
1997 …….. 0.6
1998 …….. 0.6
1999 …….. 0.8
2000 …….. 0.8

It peaked at 1.5 in 1989 (10 years after the DP was abolished) but stayed consistently three to four times higher the rate that existed throughout the 50's and 60's , throughout the early 90s. In the mid 90's it dropped down to about twice the earlier rate, (at a guess I would say the economic boom of the period may have played a role in that) But at no time does it get anywhere near the levels that were common prior to the mid-seventies...

Wow, this is particularly bad, even by rube standards...

Is he blind, drunk, stupid or all three?

He just brought numbers here that completely prove exactly what I was saying and apparently is such a complete moron that he doesn't even realize it...

Yeah, that's one helluva scientist we've got there...

Once again the guy who hasn't taken a math course since his junior year in high school kicks his ass....

The one thing we now know conclusively, thanks to rube, is that there is absolutely no correlation, (let alone causality) zip, zero nada...that shows the abolition of the death penalty having any positive affect whatsoever on the murder rate.

In fact this data would enable you to make a much better argument for the opposite, but as a person who (unlike obviously rube) actually understands and respects basic scientific methodology, I would certainly not attempt to make a claim like that with out a whole lot more information.