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I'm taking odds

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:02 pm
by Gob
Who will get the heaviest sentences, the householder of the burglars. (Remember this is the UK.)
Householder arrested after suspected burglars shot

A householder and his wife have been arrested in Leicestershire after two suspected burglars were hit with shotgun pellets.

The wounded men and two others have also been arrested.

Police said they were alerted by the householder, who said a group of men had broken into his home in Welby, Melton Mowbray, and that he had fired a legally held shotgun.

One of the suspected raiders called an ambulance. Another went to hospital.

Their injuries are not regarded as life-threatening, police said.

Officers said a man aged 35 and his wife aged 43 had been arrested on suspicion of causing grievous bodily harm.

Four men aged 27, 23, 31 and 33 were arrested on suspicion of aggravated burglary.

A statement from Leicestershire Police said: "Police were called at 12.26am this morning by a man reporting a group of men had broken into his home in Melton.

"The man stated that during the course of the incident he had fired a legally held shotgun and the intruders had left the scene.

"Around five minutes later the ambulance service called to tell us they had been called to a man with injuries consistent with shotgun injuries.

"A second man presented at Leicester Royal Infirmary with similar injuries."

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:08 pm
by Gob
Signs of intelligence?
An MP has said two householders should not be prosecuted for protecting their home after they were arrested for firing a gun at alleged burglars.

Alan Duncan, MP for Rutland and Melton, said the case was "straightforward" and the married couple from Welby were defending themselves.

Mr Duncan, a government minister, said: "If this is a straightforward case of someone using a shotgun to defend themselves against burglars in the dead of night, then I would hope that the police will prosecute the burglars and not my constituents.

"The householder is the victim here and justice should support them and prosecute the burglars."

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:20 pm
by Lord Jim
I think we have to wait till we see the people who actually have the decision to make, (the prosecutor and the judge) display a similar attitude before we can reach the conclusion that sanity has actually broken out....

The fact that the cops even arrested them and charged them in the first place, given the facts in the case, and that the prosecutor didn't come forward and immediately announce that the charges were being dismissed doesn't make this look promising....

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:42 pm
by Lord Jim
The record is mixed:
The case will reignite the debate over a householder’s right to defend his property, which began in the late 1990s after the farmer Tony Martin shot two burglars at his remote Norfolk home. In 1999, Martin fired at Brendan Fearon, 29, and Fred Barras, 16, after they broke into the house in Emneth Hungate.

Three shots were fired, Barras was hit in the back and despite escaping through a window died moments later. Martin was convicted of murder and jailed for life, which was reduced on appeal to manslaughter and five years’ jail.

In 2009, the millionaire businessman Munir Hussain fought back with a metal pole and a cricket bat against a knife-wielding burglar who tied up his family at their home in Buckinghamshire. Hussain was jailed for two and a half years, despite his attacker being spared prison.

Appeal judges reduced the sentence to a year’s jail, suspended.

The case prompted David Cameron to announce that home owners and shopkeepers would have the right to protect themselves against burglars and robbers.

Last year, Peter Flanagan, 59, who fatally stabbed a burglar armed with a machete at his home in Salford, Great Manchester, escaped prosecution after the Crown Prosecution Service ruled that he was acting in self defence. :clap:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... k-ins.html

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:55 pm
by Scooter
And if we learn that the burglar was shot in the back, and/or was off the property at the moment he was shot, what then?

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:07 pm
by Joe Guy
Scooter wrote:And if we learn that the burglar was shot in the back, and/or was off the property at the moment he was shot, what then?
We would then have a different scenario than the one presented in the OP and another issue would be discussed.

If the Queen had balls she would be the King.

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:41 pm
by Scooter
Where in the article does it say the burglers were shot while in the house?

Where in the article does it say what part(s) of their bodies were shot?

How do either of those represent a "different scenario" if neither of them is in any way excluded or contradicted by the "scenario" presented in the OP?

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:42 pm
by Gob
Gob wrote:
Officers said a man aged 35 and his wife aged 43 had been arrested on suspicion of causing grievous bodily harm.

If it was a shotgun used, why have they arrested two people?

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:46 pm
by Scooter
Good question. The man appears to have admitted to being the shooter. Unless for some reason they are not ruling out the possibility that he is covering for his wife, or something...

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:25 am
by MajGenl.Meade
One barrel each? It was the two cries of "Pull" that made the police suspicious

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:45 am
by Gob
Well I'll be blowed...
The couple arrested for opening fire on intruders who targeted their isolated cottage will not face charges, the Crown Prosecution Service announced last night.

Andy and Tracey Ferrie had been held on suspicion of grievous bodily harm after dialling 999 to report that they had discharged a shotgun when a four-man gang broke in to their home in the middle of the night. The couple spent almost three days and nights in custody until they were released on bail late on Tuesday night.

Yesterday, hours after two men appeared in court charged with burglary in connection with the raid on the Ferries’ 200-year-old cottage, prosecutors said it was ‘clear’ the couple ‘did what they believed was necessary to protect themselves, and their home, from intruders’.

The decision was greeted as a victory for common sense by friends and relatives.
But let's not get carried away..
A judge praised burglars for their ‘courage’ and claimed prison ‘very rarely does anybody any good’ as he allowed a serial intruder to walk free from court.

Judge Peter Bowers said burglar Richard Rochford deserved to be jailed for two-and-a-half years but he decided to take an ‘extraordinary chance’ by not locking him up.

Recognising the controversy he was causing, the judge added: ‘I might get pilloried for it.’


Rochford, 26, burgled three homes in East Cleveland and tried to burgle another in the space of five days. He committed the crimes to feed a drug addiction that started when he was in prison for another offence, Teesside Crown Court was told.

Passing sentence, Judge Bowers told him: ‘It takes a huge amount of courage as far as I can see for someone to burgle somebody’s house. I wouldn’t have the nerve.

‘Yet somehow, bolstered by drugs and desperation, you were prepared to do that.’ The judge added: ‘I think prison very rarely does anybody any good. It mostly leaves people the chance to change their own mind if they want to. I don’t think anybody would benefit from sending you to prison today. We’d all just feel a bit easier that a burglar had been taken off the streets.’

Rochford could have been jailed for two-and-a-half years but instead he was given a suspended 12-month jail sentence, a two-year supervision order with drug rehabilitation, 200 hours’ unpaid work and a one-year driving ban. The offence was Rochford’s first burglary conviction, although he was cautioned for burgling a home at the age of ten. He has previously been jailed for three years for arson.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z25erQqTYd

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:48 am
by dales
:ok

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:52 am
by Lord Jim
The decision was greeted as a victory for common sense by friends and relatives.
Agreed....

But it's still outrageous that these people had to spend three days in jail....

Even after they were charged, why weren't they released pending trial? Were they considered a danger to the community? Were the police afraid that if they were released, they might defend themselves against another group of home invaders, and they wanted to make sure that didn't happen? :loon

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:04 am
by MajGenl.Meade
Passing sentence, Judge Bowers told him: ‘It takes a huge amount of courage as far as I can see for someone to burgle somebody’s house. I wouldn’t have the nerve.
Queen's Birthday honours all round, then?

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:49 pm
by Lord Jim
I don’t think anybody would benefit from sending you to prison today. We’d all just feel a bit easier that a burglar had been taken off the streets.’
And taking a burglar off the streets isn't a benefit ........because?..... :loon

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:19 pm
by dgs49
An analogous U.S. story (sorry about the length of it):

VERONA — Earl Jones had just turned off his new TV shortly after 2 a.m. Monday when he heard a bang in the basement.

The 92-year-old Boone County farmer walked eight paces to get his loaded .22 caliber rifle from behind the bedroom door. He unwrapped a beige cloth and returned to the living room, sitting in a chair with clear view – and shot – of the basement door, waiting with the gun across his lap.

Some 15 minutes later, when he heard footsteps moving closer up the stairs, he raised the rifle to his eye. The intruder kicked open the door. Jones fixed his aim on the center of the man’s chest and fired a single shot. The Boone County Sheriff later announced the death of the intruder, Lloyd (Adam) Maxwell, 24, of Richmond, Ky.

“These people aren’t worth any more to me than a groundhog,” Jones told the Enquirer. “They have our country in havoc. We got so many damned crooked people walking around today.”

Two men with Maxwell, Ryan Dalton, 22, and Donnie Inabnit, 20, both of Dry Ridge, were charged with second degree burglary and tampering with evidence. Police say they removed Maxwell’s body from Jones’ Violet Road home.

The Boone County Sheriff had no information Monday night on whether Jones would be charged, but he appeared clearly to act within Kentucky’s legal definition of justifiable force in the defense of his home and property.

An investigation is ongoing. Police haven’t said if the intruders were armed.

Kentucky, like at least two dozen states, has a “Castle doctrine” enshrined in its laws. That’s the right to defend one’s home with deadly force.

Kentucky law allows the use of physical force if someone believes it’s needed to prevent criminal trespass, robbery, or burglary in their house.

Some states, including Kentucky, have expanded the Castle doctrine in recent years, giving people the right to use deadly force outside of their homes.

Called “no retreat” or “stand your ground” laws, they do not require an individual to retreat before using force and allow the individual to match force for force, including deadly force, in public places. Florida’s “stand your ground” law is at the core of the Feb. 26 shooting death of black teen Trayvon Martin by crime-watch volunteer George Zimmerman.

The number of killings nationally of a felon during the commission of a felony by private citizens has increased in recent years, from 196 in 2005 to 278 in 2010, acording to FBI Uniform Crime Report statistics.

Two high-profile cases of justifiable homicide took place regionally in recent years.

In January, an 84-year-old Hamilton man shot and killed an elderly intruder at his home in the 2700 block of Hilda Avenue and was not charged. In March 2007, a Covington man fatally shot an intruder whom he said was beating him in his home at 3:30 a.m. and was not charged, either.

'I aimed right for his heart'
In Earl Jones’ mind, his actions are justified, as well. He said he was completely within his rights to defend his life and ranch home on the 500-acre farm he has worked since 1955.

“I was hoping another one would come up – I aimed right for his heart,” Jones, who served in the U.S. Army Air Forces from 1941 through ’46, told the Enquirer Monday afternoon. “I didn’t go to war for nothing. I have the right to carry a gun. That’s what I told the police this morning.”

Not long after the shooting, Kenton County Police responded to a call on Courtney Road of a man who had been shot. There they found Maxwell’s body and two uninjured men in a 2001 Chevrolet Impala who later, during questioning, would admit to being at Jones’ home on Violet Road.

The break-in was the third Jones has experienced on his farm this year. In April, thieves stole 90 head of cattle from the field behind his house. In August, burglars took from his house a television, a few thousands dollars cash and a personal check they unsuccessfully tried to cash and ripped his phone out of the wall.

“I can’t leave the damn house to do my work outside,” said Jones, removing his World War II veteran cap with his right hand and running his left through his thin white hair.

Jones has lived alone since his wife, Virginia Pearl, died in 2006. The couple had no children. Jones grew up hunting squirrels in Boone County and volunteered for the forerunner to the U.S. Air Force in 1941. He went through weapons training in the military.

He is not happy that police took the rifle used in the shooting.

“How am I going to protect myself if they come back looking for revenge?” he said.

Maxwell fell back seven steps onto a landing. Jones didn’t pursue them into the basement.

He called a neighbor and calmly said, “I need help. I just shot a man,’” he said.

At the same time, the two unhurt intruders, Dalton and Inabnit, fled Jones’ property with Maxwell’s body. Not long afterward, having driven across the county line, they called Kenton County Police with a bogus story of how Maxwell had been shot.

When Boone County Sheriff’s deputies arrived at Jones house, they found the basement door ajar and no one except Jones in the home.

Jones didn’t like how deputies treated him. “They stood down there with their guns on me, yelling, `Get your hands up! Get your hands up!’” he said. “I told them, `I’m not putting my damn hands up.’”

Finally, he did. Police approached up the long gravel driveway, flanked by a field of tobacco that Jones rents to another farmer, and questioned him.

“Was I scared? Was I mad? Hell no,” Jones said. “It was simple. That man was going to take my life. He was hunting me. I was protecting myself.”

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:25 pm
by Scooter
Jones did absolutely nothing wrong, and won't be charged. But police are doing their job by investigating throughly to ensure that the events transpired as Jones described. Unlike another case we could mention...

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:48 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
I do think they should give him his gun back ASAP. Now everyone around knows he can't defend himself.

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:04 pm
by Gob
A judge who described a drug-addicted serial thief as "courageous" is to be investigated by the judicial watchdog.

Judge Peter Bowers reportedly made the remark while sentencing 26-year-old Richard Rochford for burglary.

The Teesside Crown Court judge also said he thought prison did criminals "little good".

His remarks sparked criticism and Prime Minister David Cameron said burglars were "cowards" whose "hateful crime" violated victims.

A spokesperson for the Office for Judicial Complaints said it had "received a number of complaints in relation to comments that His Honour Judge Bowers made in relation to a case in Teesside Crown Court on 4 September 2012".

David Cameron on ITV Daybreak: "Burglars should be sent to jail"

"Those complaints will be considered under the Judicial Discipline Regulations in the usual way. It would not be appropriate to comment further at this stage," the spokesperson said.

Speaking to ITV's Daybreak programme, Mr Cameron said: "I haven't seen the specific case.

"Judges sometimes say things that, you have to read the full context and the rest of it.

"But I'm very clear; burglary is not bravery, burglary is cowardice, burglary is a hateful crime.

"People sometimes say it is not a violent crime but, actually, if you've been burgled, you do feel it was violent, breaking into your home.

"That's why this government is actually changing the law to toughen the rules on self-defence towards burglars."
'Too lenient'

One of Rochford's victims, Mark Clayton, of Lingdale, North Yorkshire, condemned Judge Bowers' comments.

He said: "How can a man who is burgling houses be told it takes courage and be let off? He hasn't learnt anything from his mistakes.


"What is courage? I did 22 years with Her Majesty's forces. I've done a lot of things that took immense courage.
Richard Rochford Richard Rochford will undergo a drug rehabilitation course


"The judge has been too lenient towards this guy's mental state. It's hardly fair.

"I don't know anything about the prison service but I'm sure it's all about rehabilitating people. That's why it's there."

Mr Clayton said Rochford had broken into his house in the early hours, ransacked it and taken laptops, televisions and items of sentimental value.

He added: "I thought Rochford would get some sentence. He has to learn from what he's done. He can't just be let off for the crimes he's committed."

Javed Khan, chief executive of the national charity Victim Support, said burglars should be brought to justice because of the impact of their actions on victims.

"Burglary can be a traumatic experience for victims and leave long lasting scars," he said.

"It is therefore disappointing to see it being taken lightly by anyone - not least someone whose role it is to make sure offenders are brought to justice."

A Ministry of Justice Spokeswoman said: "Sentencing is purely a matter for the courts, as only they have the full facts of a case before them."

Re: I'm taking odds

Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:19 am
by oldr_n_wsr
Why can't he undergo rehab while serving a jail sentence? :loon