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These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:16 am
by dales
link shortened by Daisy



They’re treating it like a national playground.


At the National September 11th Memorial, tourists balance coffee cups and soda bottles on the parapets bearing the names of the dead.


Parents hoist their children to sit on the bronze plaques, while other visitors splash water from the two waterfalls onto their faces to cool themselves on a hot summer day.

On the plaza, tourists break out lunch foods and lie on their backs.

A year after the memorial’s opening, the almost-cheerful atmosphere at what was supposed to be a solemn site has appalled first responders and victims’ families.

Some have compared the $700 million memorial to a “Disney attraction,” down to the weaving lines to get in.

One tourist “spilt coffee all over my son’s name . . . after she arose from sitting on the names,” a relative wrote to Bill Doyle of the Coalition of 9/11 Families.

When first responder Marianne Pizzitola visited, she found people acting “like this was a park or playground.”

“People laughed and took pictures smiling, and so many people leaned on the tablets with all of my friends names engraved in them, holding Starbucks cups, like it was a kitchen table,” Pizzitola, head of the FDNY EMS Retirees Association, wrote in a letter to Memorial President Joe Daniels.

Last week, The Post observed guards circling the two pools and prohibiting visitors from leaning on the ledges or resting their bags against engraved names.

Two guards said the crackdown was new, a directive issued because of the upcoming 9/11 anniversary, to prevent scratches or damage to the monument.

The relaxed atmosphere at the 9/11 Memorial stands in contrast to other national memorials. At the USS Arizona Memorial at Pearl Harbor, visitors are shown a video explaining the significance of the site before entering. A large sign at the entrance reads: “Please conduct yourself with dignity and respect at all times. Remember this is hallowed ground.”

At the 9/11 Memorial, a list of visitor rules directs them to a Web site for more information about respecting the memorial. One sign on the plaza reminds visitors that the memorial is “a place of remembrance and quiet reflection.”

At least one family member is relieved the site’s mood isn’t morose.

“I have always assumed that as time goes by, people will come there for gentle recreation — walking, sitting in the dappled sunshine, even picnicking — so I am rather surprised that anyone thinks this is not acceptable behavior,” said Kathy Bowden, who lost her brother in the attacks.

Said etiquette expert Jacqueline Whitmore, “When you step upon a memorial site, you should have some respect, keep your voice low, and remember it’s not an amusement park.”

akarni@nypost.com


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manh ... z25P72G8f9


I dunno - perhaps these insensitive cretins need a good @ss-kicking or is it just me? :shrug

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:43 am
by Crackpot
your link is wassing up the text

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:56 pm
by dales
Crackpot wrote:your link is wassing up the text
Both URL's work OK here.

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:40 pm
by Scooter
It's hard to know whether this is something that happens a lot, or if there have been a few isolated incidents that are being made to sound like it is a major problem. That being said, if you design it so it looks and feels like a public square, that is how people are going to use it.

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:54 pm
by Joe Guy
You can't argue against the facts.

Image

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:14 pm
by Scooter
Ok Joe, it was funny in the threads that called for it, but if you're going to spew those all over the board it's going to get tiresome.

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:21 pm
by Econoline
Scooter wrote:It's hard to know whether this is something that happens a lot, or if there have been a few isolated incidents that are being made to sound like it is a major problem. That being said, if you design it so it looks and feels like a public square, that is how people are going to use it.
True. And at least one 9/11 family member gets that (from the article in the OP):
At least one family member is relieved the site’s mood isn’t morose.

“I have always assumed that as time goes by, people will come there for gentle recreation — walking, sitting in the dappled sunshine, even picnicking — so I am rather surprised that anyone thinks this is not acceptable behavior,” said Kathy Bowden, who lost her brother in the attacks.

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:42 pm
by Joe Guy
Scooter wrote:Ok Joe, it was funny in the threads that called for it, but if you're going to spew those all over the board it's going to get tiresome.
Sorry, Scooter. I'll try not to overdo it.

I know doing something like that will eventually get on people's nerves and it will stop being funny.

Image

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:50 pm
by Lord Jim
That being said, if you design it so it looks and feels like a public square, that is how people are going to use it.
I think that's fair....especially in the middle of Manhattan, with hundreds of thousands of tourists , in the summer time....

If it's made to look like a little mini park, a place to relax, people are going to respond to it that way...

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:32 pm
by Daisy
Dales I shortened your link it was WASSing on iDevices.

Hope you don't mind

Daisy x

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:10 pm
by dales
No, I didn't realize it since I use desk top CPU.

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:46 pm
by Guinevere
I was there this spring, and the space does have a park-like feel. There are benches and lots of bright sunny green spaces to sit down, and the sound of the water is very soothing. It's still surrounded by the temporary construction type walls, and when I was there the permanent entrance was also not yet completed, so perhaps there will be appropriate signage later. I don't recall any signs about the nature of the place when I visited -- but you do have to go through airport type security, which should at the very least, remind people that this isn't your average park.

That being said, it is one of the largest open spaces in lower Manhattan, and you're going to have people who treat it like a park, not a memorial.

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:50 pm
by rubato
It is unreasonable to demand that people treat as hallowed ground a small bit of open public space that is available in a densely populated urban area.

Siting it in a public thoroughfare and expecting anything else is just foolish.

yrs,
rubato

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:45 am
by dales
Only people who are barbarians would deny the dead a litle solemnity.

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:33 am
by Miles
If you can't aford the site of the twin towers some sort of respect then we as a people have little expectation of showing the rest of the world much.

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:38 am
by loCAtek
Well, tourists ...what are you going to do?

The National September 11th Memorial is indeed a moving tribute to the fallen; but after working with tourists at the USS Arizona Memorial, I've noticed most folks (Re: Americans) are there for their own amusement, and not to pay respects. However, you can always take the opportunity of thier visit, to educate them as to the significance behind the architecture and atmosphere. If they didn't come reverently, they may leave with a better understanding.

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:13 pm
by Guinevere
If I've learned one thing recently, after becoming friends with the editor of our local newspaper, its that news types are looking for a story that will engender controversy and discussion, and they don't seem to always stick to the facts. For example, I just re-read the story again, particularly the line about visitors "splashing themselves" with water from the fountains. I don't recall being about the get that close to the water. So I reviewed my pictures. The water falls around the sides of the foundation spaces, under the bronze memorial plaques -- which are close to chest high and angled upwards -- and about 18 inches deep. You'd have to have arms the length of a giraffe's neck to actually get to the water.

(Image from the 9/11 Memorial website)
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I call bullshit. And I'd bet there have been a few occasions of bad manners, like there are everywhere. But I'd also bet the vast majority of the (I'm guessing) million+ of people who have visited that memorial in its first year are well-behaved. As I said above, I was there on a busy sunny spring saturday at lunchtime, and it was pretty darn quiet once we got through the security line. Most people seemed reflective. I know I didn't have much to say, and I found it hard to even take too many pictures, just because of the nature of the place.

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:39 pm
by dales
Write to the NY Post, then. :shrug

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:58 pm
by MajGenl.Meade
Image

Image

Guin - I think the construction makes it very easy to reach the water, especially at the cut-off corners. The plaques appear to be crotch-high on a pre-teen (what isn't?) and it looks to me as if even a short-house like myself could easily lay across the slope and splash about.

Meade

Re: These People Are Disgusting!

Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:43 pm
by Guinevere
Meade, I remember it differently, and I certainly don't remember people splashing in the fountains.