Plan B Forum

If we put our minds to it...

In another thread, I suggested that we use our collective scientific capability to create an algae that would solve our carbon dioxide in the atmosphere problem...

Now I'd like to suggest that we look at something else, and consider what we could do about it...

Here is a map of Africa:



Take a look at that humongous grey area...

That is the Sahara, a barren waste land...Larger in land size than Canada...

(But it wasn't always a barren wasteland; we know this for a fact, because we have found cave drawings in the middle of the Sahara of hippos and alligators...)

Apparently, about 10,000 years ago, there was a slight jiggle in the earth's orientation that altered the rain patterns..and completely changed the place....

There's a very plausible theory, that it was this climatic change, this desertification, that was first responsible for the creation of civilization...

It was after this happened that after 150,000 years of hunter gathering, we finally had to gather on riverbanks and develop agriculture...

But I digress...

What if we could use all the expertise we have accumulated since then....

To figure out a way, to make that grey area on the map, the size of Canada, once again as green as Canada?

What if we could figure out a way to make it rain there?

We live on a planet today with about 7 billion souls...

What if we could make a whole new place for people to live in, the size of Canada?

A place for towns, and cities, and most of all rich farming land...

It really isn't as crazy an idea as it sounds...It's all about applying ourselves, and the time, resources, and brain power to the objectives we want to achieve...

That's the great thing about the human race...

Despite our humble and ignoble origins, there are almost no limits to what we can achieve, once we put our collective minds to it...

We can figure out a way to make the Sahara bloom...

You just KNOW that the environmentalists will be up in arms as you remove the last viable habitat for the Frilled Tailed Thorny Legless Lizard.

Nice thought Jim, when the world is over the GFC it may eb feasbale, but money is the prime problem.

Huge, solar-powered, desalination plants would seem to be the best way forward, but then you have the problem of salt disposal.

You just KNOW that the environmentalists will be up in arms as you remove the last viable habitat for the Frilled Tailed Thorny Legless Lizard.

Yes, I'm sure that would be a major hurdle to overcome...

As I said a few years ago, if we found a practical way to terraform Mars, there would be some bunch of self appointed do-gooders rushing in to try and get a court injunction to prevent it from happening, on the grounds that it would "disturb the pristine environment"....

Gob wrote: Huge, solar-powered, desalination plants would seem to be the best way forward, but then you have the problem of salt disposal.

We're going to need a lot of chips and vinegar!

You're on!


Now back to the terraform discussion.

There are huge tracks or arid land in Aus that aren't doing much at present, but I think you are wise to not mention them

We have enough issues with Land Rights and mineral ownership to be able to deal with the dismay of habitation that would undoubtedly be released here. Plus I am not entirely convinced any terraforming would work here, for the same reason we don't get rain.

Sounds like a Monty Python Routine:....

Cleese: I'd like a permit to build on the planet Mars please....

Palin: I'm sorry sir, what did you say?

Cleese: I said I'd like a permit to build on the Planet Mars, please...

Palin: That's what I thought you said....

Cleese: You have a problem with that, do you?...what have you got against Mars?

Palin: Well, nothing sir....

Cleese: So what's the problem then?

Palin: Well you have to admit sir.....It's rather odd...a complete stranger walking in here saying they want a building permit to start building on The Planet Mars...It doesn't happen every day...

Cleese: Well of course it doesn't happen "every day"....How many people do you expect to run into in the course of a given day, who have the cash to be able to afford a Martian Building permit?

Palin: Not many...

Cleese: Exactly...

Palin: You have a Martian building permit?

Cleese: Of course I do...You'd have to be crazy to consider building on Mars without one....

WE already could solve our Carbon dioxide with algae. but there is the real fear of unintended consequences with iron fertilization.

BTW the Grey area is in SA the Sahara is in beige.

eb feasbale

didn't he play centre-half for Scunthorpe in 1928?

.... and CP there are no grey areas in SA - it is all black and white. But note that if there were a grey area, then I would be sitting in the midst of it right now - I contemplate my temperate and mountain grassland

I've a simple solution for the African Sahara situation.

The One Percenters should build Hotels & Casinos all over the place and invite Wayne Newton, the Blue Man Group and some circus acts.

Then set up a bunch of air and bus routes to get people there.

I've also got an idea for the name of a Hotel.

'The Tahoe in Sahara.'

Just a thought.

Actually, terra forming Mars wouldn't be that hard (if we find any evidence of water sources, that would just make it that much easier) ...all we have to do is start seeding it with bacteria. Eventually, some strands would begin surviving and reproducing, and start the whole process of creating a biosphere ...much like some say happened on Earth.

The whole project would take only a few million years! With man helping it along, that would shave off billions of years, compared to doing it the natural way.


I think it would be really cool to lead that Martian world into a New Saurian Age, where Dinosaurs could be allowed to live and thrive, instead of going extinct like they did on Earth.

Would they rise to sentience, I wonder?





Sorry, for the hijack Jim...


As for the Sahara: getting rain water there would be one HUGE undertaking; where the real problem would be is getting the soil to hold it. There has been such a lack of vegetation there for so long, that there is more sand than earth in that region, and water just drains quickly away.
Again, given enough time, rains would inch the surrounding green zones into the desert, and by my best guess, that would take at least hundreds of years of cultivation.

They say the ocean is rising so you need to drain the oceans to keep the east coast of the USA from being submerged. Desalinate the water and pump it onto the sahara. Create a another "salt flats" area in part of the sahara and have land speed record races there.

Well, a lot of the ocean's waters are being desalinated nearby in the Middle East. Many a sheik has his own personal, desalination plant for clean drinking water
...where the salt goes; who knows?

loCAtek wrote:...where the salt goes; who knows?

If you make it, they will come.

Does that stand true for beds?

The Hen wrote:Does that stand true for beds?

Only on the slip covers.

Mark Twain famously said, "Everybody complains about the weather but nobody does anything about it."

We cannot change the weather. Period. It has been tried. Smarter people than anyone who posts here have tried and failed.

The only "solution" is artificial irrigation, which would require essentially infinite amounts of fresh water. Ain't happenin'.

Desalination (by reverse osmosis) requires huge amounts of electricity to run pumps that force the water through membranes. Solar power just won't produce enough juice to do it. R.O. desal does not produce salt, but rather slightly saltier reject water, which is pumped back into the source body of water. I was involved in a desal project in Tampa many years ago where the local tree huggers fought the project for years, claiming that the higher-temperature, saltier reject water would kill all the fish (etc). They were, as usual, quite wrong. The biologicals at the outflows of the now-built plant are quite happy.

Droughts are a fact of life around the world, as are times when the rain is so plentiful that it harms the crops. As are unusual freezes.

Thankfully, global warming will open up vast tracts of land for food cultivation that have previously been too cold or growing seasons too short. Northern Canada, Siberia and Greenland come to mind. But of course you will rarely read of such phenomena since they go against the prevailing narrative of death and destruction.