Chris Kyle Killed

[Joe Guy]

Sniper murdered at Fort Worth-area gun range

Updated 11:24 am, Sunday, February 3, 2013

GLEN ROSE — A 25-year-old man was charged with murder in connection with a shooting at a central Texas gun range that killed former Navy SEAL and "American Sniper" author Chris Kyle and his friend, the Texas Department of Public Safety said Sunday.

Sgt. Lonny Haschel said in a news release that 25-year-old Eddie Ray Routh of Lancaster was arraigned Saturday evening on two counts of capital murder. Officer Kyle Roberts at the Erath County Jail said Routh arrived there Sunday morning and is being held on a combined $3 million bond. Roberts did not have information on whether Routh had a lawyer.

Haschel said Erath County Sheriff's deputies responded to a call about a shooting at the Rough Creek Lodge, west of Glen Rose, at about 5:30 p.m. Saturday. Police found the bodies of Kyle, 38, and Chad Littlefield, 35, at the shooting range about 50 miles southwest of Fort Worth. Erath County Sheriff Tommy Bryant said he did not know where Kyle and Littlefield were hit because he had not yet received the medical examiner's report.

Kyle and Littlefield had taken Routh to the range, said Travis Cox, the director of a nonprofit Kyle helped found. Littlefield was Kyle's neighbor and "workout buddy," Cox told The Associated Press on Sunday morning.

"What I know is Chris and a gentleman — great guy, I knew him well, Chad Littlefield — took a veteran out shooting who was struggling with PTSD to try to assist him, try to help him, try to, you know, give him a helping hand and he turned the gun on both of them, killing them," Cox said.

Police said Routh opened fire on Kyle and Littlefield around 3:30 p.m. Saturday, and then fled in a Ford pickup truck, which Bryant said was Kyle's truck. At about 8 p.m., Routh arrived at his home in Lancaster, about 17 miles southeast of Dallas. Police arrested him after a brief pursuit and took him to the Lancaster Police Department.

The motive for the shooting was unclear. A knock on the door at Routh's last known address went unanswered Sunday. A for-sale sign was in front of the cream-colored wood-framed home.

Kyle, a decorated veteran, wrote the best-selling book, "American Sniper: The Autobiography of the Most Lethal Sniper in U.S. Military History," detailing his 150-plus kills of insurgents from 1999 to 2009. Kyle said in his book that Iraqi insurgents had put a bounty on his head. According to promotional information from book publisher William Morrow, Kyle deployed to Iraq four times.

Kyle's nonprofit, FITCO Cares, provides at-home fitness equipment for emotionally and physically wounded veterans.

"Chris was literally the type of guy if you were a veteran and needed help he'd help you," Cox said. "And from my understanding that's what happened here. I don't know how he came in contact with this gentleman, but I do know that it was not through the foundation."

Cox described Littlefield as a gentle, kind-hearted man who often called or emailed him with ideas for events or fundraisers to help veterans.

"It was just two great guys with Chad and Chris trying to help out a veteran in need and making time out of their day to help him. And to give him a hand. And unfortunately this thing happened," Cox said.

Craft International, Kyle's security training company, had scheduled a $2,950-per-person civilian training event at Rough Creek Lodge called the "Rough Creek Shoot Out!" for March 1-3. The price included lodging, meals and shooting instruction. Kyle was scheduled to teach the first class, called "precision rifle."

Kyle is survived by his wife, Taya, and their two children, Cox said.

source

[dales]

If there had been an armed school teacher there........wait.

[Econoline]

[oldr_n_wsr]

Shit happens.
We may never know why.
there are deranged souls everywhere
not all can be stopped.

[Andrew D]

Putting a gun in the hands of someone they knew was "struggling with PTSD" turned out to be a bad idea.

[Jay Tea]

Professional murderer, sponsored by State, gets murdered - sorry but who gives a fuck? What is this other than a slightly pithy irony?

[Lord Jim]

Professional murderer, sponsored by State, gets murdered

Oh brother....

[dales]

Professional murderer, sponsored by State, gets murdered - sorry but who gives a fuck? What is this other than a slightly pithy irony?

WGAF?

What if that was your brother, cousin, or father?

It's one thing to assume the false moral high ground of spitting on the remains of a soldier, it's quite another to be so callous and dark-hearted about it.

[rubato]

Proving that having two people there both highly skilled with guns, both having their own guns, could do nothing to protect themselves.

The malefactor always has the advantage of surprise and no number of armed guards can fix that.

yrs,
rubato

[oldr_n_wsr]

The malefactor always has the advantage of surprise and no number of armed guards can fix that.

Oh I kind of doubt that. Element of surprise will normally take one maybe two out, but once the surprise has been exposed, the others can overtake/eliminate the "malefactor".

As far as one soldier helping another, I can equate that to helping a fellow alcoholic/addict. While I am not persuaded by the helpee's plea to stop at a liquor store, the plea is still there. These guys were trying to help, maybe the rifle range helped them and thought it might help their fellow soldier. Too bad it turned out this way.

[Lord Jim]

Proving that having two people there both highly skilled with guns, both having their own guns, could do nothing to protect themselves.

Then what chance has a knucklehead like you got? Isn't it about time you ditched your piece? Surely Santa Cruz must have some sort of buy back program....

[oldr_n_wsr]

Gun buy backs do not reduce the amount of guns in those people most likely to use them in violation of a (any) law.
They allow the widow/family member to get rid of the husbands shotgun/military souvenier/whatever and walk away with a few bucks. Which is fine, but if they (those sponsoring the buy back) think any thief is going to go and give up his gun for the $100 when on the street he can make 3 to 5 times that, they are deluding themselves.

OH but they got x amount of guns off the streets!!!!!!
99.99% of those guns were never on the "street". They were tucked away in a closet/attic/basement and chances are, without some work and cleaning, were not fireable anyway.

[Lord Jim]

Oldr, I've posted my views on gun "buy back programs" (they are not very different from yours):

I've wanted to make some remarks about "gun buy back" programs, and this looks like as good a place as any to make them...

A few days ago, I saw the Mayor of Los Angeles beaming with pride on MSNBC about how "successful" a recent "gun buy back" day had been in his burg....

1500 guns had been turned in....

In recent years, I have seen other mayors of other towns claim the same sort of "success"....

Here's the problem I have with this...

It doesn't seem logical to me to measure the "success" of a "gun buy back program" based on the number of firearms being turned in....

It seems to me that what is far more important as a measure of success, is who is turning in those firearms...

I believe that it's very unlikely that gang bangers or street thugs, (unless they've upgraded to a new level of weaponry and therefore want to pick up a few bucks turning in their old guns; or have stolen a number of extra guns in anticipation of the buy back program) or rapists, or serial killers, or other assorted home invaders, will participate in a "gun buy back program"...

I don't know about you, but a bunch of widows turning in the shot guns that were owned by their deceased husbands really doesn't make me feel all that much safer....

I have to say that on my list of concerns, worrying about some shot gun toting psycho granny trying to blast her way into my home, is, well,....

way down on the list....

That's not to say that these buy back programs are a bad thing....

As rube has so helpfully shown us with the study he brought to the table, while having a gun in the home makes you less likely to be the victim of a homicide, the stats do show that you might be more likely to be the victim of a suicide...(though there's an obvious, "chicken or the egg" issue involved there...)

So, if you or someone in your household is thinking about offing themselves, it would probably be a good idea not to have a firearm around, and if some of the folks turning in their guns to "gun buy back" programs fall into that category, that would be a good thing...

My point in referencing a "Santa Cruz" buy-back program, was an exercise in sarcasm, and goes to something that should be pretty obvious:

That the man who said this:

The evidence is clear that possessing a gun increases your chance of being murdered with a gun.

Is either a hypocritical liar, or hilariously stupid...(or possibly both... )

If one takes everything rube has said on the subject in toto, those are the only two possible conclusions one can reach: ....

Rube has said:

1.

The evidence is clear that possessing a gun increases your chance of being murdered with a gun.

2.That he owns a gun because he enjoys target shooting:

No one here has ever heard of target shooting?

Amazingly ignorant.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8168&p=105262&hilit ... ng#p105262

3. That he has made the decision to own a gun, based on this:

One might honestly admit that gun ownership is less safe, which all of the data says it is, but believe that the offsetting advantages are worth that difference.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8168&p=106285&hilit ... ng#p106285

Laying aside the fact that "all of the data" doesn't say that, assuming he believes it, one should logically conclude from his statements that either he loves target shooting so much, that he is willing to risk his life to engage in it...(the hilariously stupid explanation)

Or that he is lying about his motive for owning a gun...(the hypocritical liar explanation; while you'll never go broke betting on "hilariously stupid" where rube is concerned, I'm going to go with "hypocritical liar" on this one...)

Rube, if there's a third rational explanation that fits the totality of what you've said on this subject, I'd be delighted to hear it....

[rubato]

stupid is as stupid does:



_________________
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... fact-check

Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0
• Chances that a shooting at an ER involves guns taken from guards: 1 in 5

Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.
Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.
• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.
• 43% of homes with guns and kids have at least one unlocked firearm.
• In one experiment, one third of 8-to-12-year-old boys who found a handgun pulled the trigger.

Myth #6: Carrying a gun for self-defense makes you safer.
Fact-check: In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.
• In one survey, nearly 1% of Americans reported using guns to defend themselves or their property. However, a closer look at their claims found that more than 50% involved using guns in an aggressive manner, such as escalating an argument.
• A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.

Myth #7: Guns make women safer.
Fact-check: In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers.
• A woman's chances of being killed by her abuser increase more than 7 times if he has access to a gun.
• One study found that women in states with higher gun ownership rates were 4.9 times more likely to be murdered by a gun than women in states with lower gun ownership rates.

______________________________

And this case was fairly conclusive. Two experts with firearms were shot dead. Having guns did them no good at all.




yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

stupid is as stupid does:

Yes indeed...

[dales]

stupid is as stupid does:

Yes indeed...

[oldr_n_wsr]

Myth #4: More good guys with guns can stop rampaging bad guys.
Fact-check: Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0

Anyone check to see how many armed civilians were in the area when these mass shootings took place?
Didn't think so.

Columbine have any armed security or teachers or admins?
Don't think so.

Did LIRR shooter Colin Fergesen have any armed people on the train with him? With NY state, NY city and Long Island gun laws it is highly doubtful.

Did anyone have a gun in Conn when the nutty son took moms weapons and busted into the school?
Nope, only when the cops (armed cops) showed up did he put a bullet into his own head rather than others.

Movie theater masacre? Anyone armed there? Didn't read that.

All "soft" targets where it is practically advertised that it is a "No Gun Zone" making easy prey of the people there.

[Lord Jim]

Oldr, that whole list of rube's is complete laughable garbage, backed up by absolutely nothing. (And most of it contradicted by the available known evidence) It's not worth deconstructing; anyone serious about this subject can simply dismiss it out of hand.

Rube has simply tossed up this hodge podge of lies, misleading partial facts, and pure ass gas to try and deflect once again from his blatant hypocrisy. It's nothing but a diversion.

I find it extremely amusing that rube even continues to participate in discussions on this topic, given how completely he has shown his ass...

The man is even more utterly shameless than Wayne LaPierre....

[oldr_n_wsr]

I just point out the falacies or inconsistancies when I see them.
Like this

Myth #5: Keeping a gun at home makes you safer.

Only in a break in or confrontation with an assailant, but of course that kind of evidence is not presented

Fact-check: Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.

If there is no gun, there cannot (by definition) be an accidental death by gun. How many accidental deaths by falling from a ladder, or slip in tub or falling could be averted if there were no ladders, tubs showers or heights in the home?

• For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.

Apples and oranges. Not all homes (probably very few) where assaults murderds, suicides or accidents are subject to having to use a gun for self defense.

• 43% of homes with guns and kids have at least one unlocked firearm.

Stupidity is only in 43% of the population? And what does an "unlocked firearm" actually mean? No ammo, not locked away in a case/safe? Does a trigger lock or dismantleing of the gun count or not count as locked away?

• In one experiment, one third of 8-to-12-year-old boys who found a handgun pulled the trigger.

Without the details of the study, I cannot comment on it. Did they do a "find the rifle" game also? Were these kids brought up in a household where guns are present and safety is taught or was it their first exposure to a hand gun?

My nephew has grown up with guns his whole life. Has a healthy respect and reverence for guns. Can shoot like a pro and handles guns/ rifles with utmost care. Shot his first deer at age 9. All guns are unloaded before being brought into the house and immediately locked up. Always assume a gun is loaded. Never pull a trigger, slowly let the hammer down if the gun is cocked.

Demographics are key.

[Lord Jim]

Most of the crap in that garbage post of rube's has already been debunked multiple times on this board, as rube well knows...what's left over is either misleadingly taken out of context, ("Mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 30 years: 0"...Really? does that include the ones that didn't become mass killings because of the intervention of an armed civilian?) or yanked out of thin air, ( "For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.")

Rube is one of those folks who believes if you just repeat a lie over and over, eventually somebody will believe it...

He think that if he just piles the bullshit high enough, it will somehow turn into chocolate pudding....