Plan B Forum

I've been conceding that the data that has been brought to the table here does show a higher likelihood of suicide being committed in households with guns than in households without, (as opposed to the data on homicides, which shows nothing of the sort)

But I've also raised the "chicken or the egg" question about it; ie, do the people get guns because they are suicidal, and that's the method they choose, (if guns weren't available, they'd simply choose something else) or does the presence of a gun in the household somehow make the commission of a suicide more likely?

Seems I was right to raise this question; the statistics on suicide rates between countries shows absolutely no correlation between suicide rates and the relative ease with which one can obtain a firearm in any country.

At this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... icide_rate

You will see a table ranking the suicide rate per 100,000 of population for 107 countries. (Given the table pasting formating challenges on the forum, there ain't no way I'm going to take the time to copy and paste it all)

The US ranks 34th. Several countries with much stronger gun control laws rank higher (again, all numbers per 100,000 of population) Japan, (some of the toughest gun control laws in the free world) 21.9, France 15.0, New Zealand, 13.2, Austria, 12.8....

The US comes in at 12.0, but right behind us are tough gun law countries Sweden and Denmark, (each at 11.9) Ireland and the UK (both 11.8) and Canada and Iceland at 11.3....

Now, there are many factors that that go into explaining suicide rates, social, cultural, economic, etc, (for example, it's logical to assume that one of the reasons the rate is so high in Japan is related to the whole "face" and "shame" thing...)

But these numbers pretty conclusively demonstrate is that the relative availability of firearms isn't one of those factors...

Some interesting data there Jim and certainly nothing that can be argued with.

I'll be honest though, I have very little interest in the suicide portion of the debate. If people want to off themselves by any means available, that's up to them. It's those who shoot other people I have a problem with...

Thanks Jim, interesting.

I would rather someone commit suicide by firearm, honestly. Other methods can be dangerous to the public at large (jump off a high balcony, 80MPH into a bridge abutment, suicide by cop), or can leave them alive but now needing expensive medical care for the rest of their lives (drug OD, asphyxiation). A 12-bore slug through the brain is messy, but a whole lot surer and safer for the population at large.

Razors pain you,
Rivers are damp,
Acids stain you,
And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful,
Nooses give,
Gas smells awful.
You might as well live.

Dorothy Parker
First printed in New York World, (16 August 1925)

I would guess that people using a gun to commit suicide would have a higher "success" rate than those that choose pills or other methods.

I seem to recall reading that the highest success rate was amongst those who launched themselves off something sufficiently high...

That works too.

A friend of mine jumped off a railroad trestel that was more then 150 feet off the ground, and was not injured in the fall.

Pretty well anihilated when he hit the ground, though.

Sorry.

As someone who has lost two relatives to suicide, not really.

I lost 2 friends to sucide.

One via firearm and the other a murder/suicide via carbon monoxide gas.

I like dark humor so I thought dgs's post was a good one!

As someone who works in an industry whose client group has the highest rate of suicide of all the population, a little black humour gets us through.

dales wrote:I lost 2 friends to sucide.

One via firearm and the other a murder/suicide via carbon monoxide gas.

I like dark humor so I thought dgs's post was a good one!

My uncle (mother's brother) gassed himself in his car when his wife (who he absolutely worshiped) served him divorce papers. My cousin was accused of molesting his children in the morning, fired from the career he had been working toward since he was ten years old in the afternoon, and washed a bottle of sleeping pills down with a bottle of Jack Daniels that night. Someone found him the next day, my birthday.

The accusation was bogus, she just wanted leverage in the divorce.