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GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:38 pm
by dales
I suppose it's just me, I see very little to disagree with here.


http://www.fredoneverything.net/Guns.shtml


Your Papers, Citizen

Gun Control and the Changing American Character
February 19, 2013



A staple of American self-esteem is that we Yanks are brave, free, independent, self-reliant, ruggedly individual, and disinclined to accept abuse from anyone. This was largely true in, say, 1930. People lived, a great many of them, on farms where they planted their own crops, built their own barns, repaired their own trucks, and protected their own property. They were literate but not educated, knew little of the world beyond the local, but in their homes and fields they were supreme.

If they wanted to swim buck nekkid in the creek, they swam buck nekkid. If whistle pigs were eating the corn, the family teenager would get his rifle and solve the problem. Government left them alone.

Even in the early Sixties, in rural King George County, Virginia, where I grew up, it was still mostly true. The country people built their own boats to crab in the Potomac, converted junked car engines to marine, made their own crab pots, planted corn and such, and hunted deer. There was very little contact with the government. One state trooper was the law, and he had precious little to do.

I say the following not as an old codger painting his youth in roseate hues that never were, but as serious sociology: We kids could get up on a summer morning, grab the .22 or .410, put it over our shoulder and go into the country store for ammunition, and no one looked twice. We could go by night to the dump to snap-shoot rats, and no one cared. We could get our fishing poles—I preferred a spinning reel and bait-casting tackle—and fish anywhere we pleased on Machodoc Creek or the Potomac. We could drive unwisely but joyously on winding wooded roads late at night and nobody cared.

Call it “freedom.” We were free, and so were the country folk on their farms and with their crabbing rigs. Because we were free, we felt free. It was a distinct psychology, though we didn’t know it.

Things then changed. The country increasingly urbanized. So much for rugged.

It became ever more a nation of employees. As Walmart and shopping centers and factories moved in, the farmers sold their land to real-estate developers at what they thought mind-boggling prices, and went to work as security guards and truck drivers. Employees are not free. They fear the boss, fear dismissal, and become prisoners of the retirement system. So much for Marlboro Man.

Self-reliance went. Few any longer can fix a car or the plumbing, grow food, hunt, bait a hook or install a new roof. Or defend themselves. To overstate barely, everyone depends on someone else, often the government, for everything. Thus we becamethe Hive.

Government came like a dust storm of fine choking powder, making its way into everything. You could no longer build a shed without a half-dozen permits and inspections. You couldn’t swim without a lifeguard, couldn’t use your canoe without Coast-Guard approved flotation devices and a card saying that you had taken an approved course in how to canoe. Cops proliferated with speed traps. The government began spying on email, requiring licenses and permits for everything, and deciding what could and could not be taught to one’s children, who one had to associate with, and what one could think about what or, more usually, whom.

With this came feminization. The schools began to value feelings over learning anything. Dodge ball and freeze tag became violence and heartless competition, giving way to cooperative group activities led by a caring adult. The female preference for security over freedom set in like a hard frost. We became afraid of second-hand smoke and swimming pools with a deep end. As women got in touch with their inner totalitarian, we began to outlaw large soft drinks and any word or expression that might offend anyone.

Thus much of the country morphed into helpless flowers, narcissistic, easily frightened, profoundly ignorant video-game twiddlers and Facebook Argonauts. As every known poll shows, even what purport to be college graduates do not know who fought in World War One, or that there was a Mexican-American war, or where Indochina is.

Serving as little more than cubicle fodder, they could not survive a serious crisis like the first Depression. And they look to the collective, the hive, for protection. The notion of individual self-defense, whether with a fist or a Sig 9, is, you know, like scary, or, well, just wrong or macho or something. I mean, if you find an intruder in your house at night, shouldn’t you, like, call a caring adult?

The echoes of the former America linger in commercials in commercials for pickup trucks with throaty bass voices and footage of Toyotas powering through rough unsettled country that almost no one ever even sees these days. Mostly it’s just marketing to suburban blossoms. The number of vehicles with four-wheel drive that have actually been off a paved road is not high.

Many who grew up in the former America, and a good many today in the South and west, substantially adhere to the old values. They won’t last. We live in the day of the Hive, and in the long run there is no point fighting it.

But for these relics, who like to wind the Harley to a hundred-and-climbing on the big empty roads out west, who throw the deer rifle in the gun rack on the first day of the season, who set out into the High Desert for sheer love of sun and barren rock and sprawling isolation—the terror of guns, of everything, makes no sense.

They—we—grew up with guns. Since nobody ever shot anybody accidentally or otherwise, we accepted as obvious: that people, not guns, committed murder. Did shotguns leap into the air of their own volition, point themselves, and open fire? Or did someone pull the trigger? If a murderer shot his victim, did you put the gun in jail, or the murderer? If remote urban barbarians below the level of civilization shot people, what did that have to do with us?

A different America, a different culture. We really were free. You could come out of the house on a summer morning and let the dogs run loose in the fields, nobody ever having heard of a dog license. You could change the oil in your car or rewire your basement without the county meddling. You could shoot varmints eating your garden and no one cared. The government left you alone. This is not an unimportant part of the dispute over guns—wanting to be left alone. Nobody in America, ever again, is going to be left alone. Not ever.

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:45 pm
by Jarlaxle
Good post. :)

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:27 am
by Gob
A staple of American self-delusion is that we Yanks are brave, free, independent, self-reliant, ruggedly individual, and disinclined to accept abuse from anyone.
Fixed. ;)

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:18 am
by MajGenl.Meade
Since nobody ever shot anybody accidentally or otherwise, we accepted as obvious: that people, not guns, committed murder.
Aside from that stupid statement, yeah government intrusion in the USA is endemic partly because everything in the USian world is "interstate commerce".

As to stupidity, that sentence says that no one has ever shot anybody - whether by accident or purposely. Patent nonsense.

Second, assuming we know what the writer intended by his/her mangled English, is it true that no person has ever accidentally shot someone, including themself? I think there's a lot of information out there about children picking up guns and plugging themselves or a little pal accidentally and about careless adults shooting themselves in their legs and feet while holstering their weapons.

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:04 am
by dales
Cut him some slack Meade, he was probably drunk when he wrote it. :lol:

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Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:31 pm
by rubato
Ahhhh the 1930s, era of rugged independence.

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Except it was caused and deepened by government inaction and only remedied by extensive government action.

yrs,
rubato

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:44 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
There are plenty of us, even in suburbia, who just want the gov to leave us alone. Sure, we pay our taxes (grudgingly, but non the less pay them) so that the roads get plowed, the FD is there when we need them, the PD is there protecting us (not so much during the problem but afterwards) the schools etc. But they need to keep out of what light bulb I can buy, what gas can I can buy and all these other silly legislations that are designed to keep me from hurting myself. I have never had a problem with a light bulb, but now I have to change at least 5 fixtures in my house as next year, the bulbs that are available no longer fit. So more expence to me just because the gov needs me to save energy. Not a bad thing overall, but unintended consequences comes to mind. Gas cans, my new pet peeve as I went and bought one but it chooses not to fill my tractor, my weed wacker and my leaf picker-upper as the pressure needed to push down on the spout to get it to release the gas is greater than the tanks can stand. The equipment just rolls over and says "no mas". I have figured out that pulling the spring from behind the filler gizzmo allows me to push the spout collar down (and it stays there) so I can fill, then manually pull it up to shut off the fuel. No more capis given nor needed.

I went on the website of the gas can manufacturer and they had "regular" gas cans but they were not for sale in the USA. But I learned how the spout worked for the USA cans and was able to figure out the workaround.

But, thgov knows best. :fu

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:15 pm
by Big RR
oldr--you honestly think that energy-saving legislation was enacted to keep you from hurting yourself; that the wasting of energy doesn't affect us all? Likewise legislation regarding pollutiion of the air?

I agree there are laws that have been enacted that the government has no business doing, that many (like restricting the size of sodas that can be sold) just (or at least primarily) serve to protect us from ourselves and ought not to be the province of the government, but the examples you gave don't appear to be that. Are the laws ill=conceived and badly written? perhaps; but they serve to protect more than the individual from him/herself.

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:39 pm
by MajGenl.Meade
Ha! The farm workers here collect their petrol or kerosene in 2 or 5-litre plastic juice containers. And yet the dirt roads are somehow not littered with blazing pedestrians who die screaming for legislation to protect them from themselves. Yet another example of the ANC's callous disregard for human life? Not really. It's the only way to sterilize the containers for the next batch of beer. SA - not just for tourists!

Meade

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:55 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
Big RR wrote:oldr--you honestly think that energy-saving legislation was enacted to keep you from hurting yourself; that the wasting of energy doesn't affect us all? Likewise legislation regarding pollutiion of the air?

I agree there are laws that have been enacted that the government has no business doing, that many (like restricting the size of sodas that can be sold) just (or at least primarily) serve to protect us from ourselves and ought not to be the province of the government, but the examples you gave don't appear to be that. Are the laws ill=conceived and badly written? perhaps; but they serve to protect more than the individual from him/herself.
I (we) all pollute the air be it from a car, our oil/gas burner our wood stoves or fire places. Non starters. We need heat, thus we pollute. One can say "oh, I have solar panels but they produce "zero" energy at night unless you have the battery backup which less than 1% of panel installers have.
Florecent bulbs should be left to the consumer. I use them where I can, having to change light fixtures because the gov says I have to is beyond it's scope as far as I am concerned. I shut off every light in my house that I am not using, not to save energy, (well maybe) but because it costs me more. Economics, pure and simple (in my eyes at least).

How about the new gas cans? Stupid rules, stupid legislature that the gov should not even be involved in. Tell me how this piece of law has helped anyone?

Did you even check out how we are supposed to dispose of our new and improved CPF bulbs when they break? It treats a light bulb breaking like a "Love Canal" site (well not that bad but you get my drift).

All of this takes time away (aka money) from more important things and nly results in "feel good" legislation. Same with 16oz sodas. I want 32 oz unsweetened ice tea but with the new law, they won't even have a 32 oz cup for me.

My low flush toilet is a POS. I am replacing it with a better low flush, but maybe that is the game here. Legislate people to spend money because the stuff they have is not up to snuff and they need to get new. More money spent, more taxes collected more money for the gov to spend making useless legislations.

I don't need (nor can use) a gas can that can't fill my weedwacker/lawnmower/leafblower. I want 32 oz of unsweetened Iced tes. I want bulbs that fit in my light fixtures. But our gov says I can't have them. 'Splain Lucy?

Stop the insanity.

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:56 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
Sorry, double post monster.

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:58 pm
by Guinevere
Blaming it on women? What a bunch of pansy-assed, idiotic, mysogynistic, a-holes.

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:01 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
Guinevere wrote:Blaming it on women? What a bunch of pansy-assed, idiotic, mysogynistic, a-holes.
Gotta blame it on somebody.
Me, I blaim it on pansy-assed, idiotic, mysogynistic, a-hole politicians regardless of sex.

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:05 pm
by Guinevere
The *article* blames it on women . . .

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:12 pm
by Big RR
oldr--As I said, there are problems with the laws; the law could easily have specified that the new fluorescent bulbs be designed to fit most standard fixtures, and workable nozzles for the gas cans could also have been mandated. But I disagree that conservation only affects the individuals--your wastage of any resource affects me and vice versa unless those resources are limitless (or nearly the same); ditto for pollution. This is not "feel good legislation", it is something, albeit flawed, that ddresses singificant concerns.

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:18 pm
by Guinevere
oldr_n_wsr wrote:
Guinevere wrote:Blaming it on women? What a bunch of pansy-assed, idiotic, mysogynistic, a-holes.
Gotta blame it on somebody.
Me, I blaim it on pansy-assed, idiotic, mysogynistic, a-hole politicians regardless of sex.
And by the way, the vast majority of politicians are . . .


. . . wait for it






white men . . . .

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:50 pm
by Crackpot
there isn't anything differnet about disosing of CFLS than regular FLs people just didn't pay attention before. and before you replace your fixtures chekout LEDs. slightly more expensive than CFLs (at the moment) use even less electrcity and last even longer.

FWIW you can get a High efficiency bulb for just about any fixture out there. You just have to do a little (not a lot) of searchiing.

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:46 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
Guinevere wrote:The *article* blames it on women . . .
But I don't.
I try not to blame, I try to solve regardless of who caused what.
Big RR wrote:oldr--As I said, there are problems with the laws; the law could easily have specified that the new fluorescent bulbs be designed to fit most standard fixtures, and workable nozzles for the gas cans could also have been mandated. But I disagree that conservation only affects the individuals--your wastage of any resource affects me and vice versa unless those resources are limitless (or nearly the same); ditto for pollution. This is not "feel good legislation", it is something, albeit flawed, that ddresses singificant concerns.
First off I waste as little as I can. I am a conservationist (mainly because not being one costs me money) and try to make as small a footprint on the planet as I can.
I recycled long before recycling was popular/mandatory. I remember cutting the aluminum tops off of tin cans to recycle the aluminum. My "job" when I was a kid (1960's) was tying up the weekly newspapers and riding down to the recycling plant (on sagamore Ave in Mineola) for the $.01 they would give for the bundle. My house still has snow on it's roof which is indicative of good insulation. No one else in my neighborhood with a similar house (positioned similarly) still has snow on their roof.

I have no problem with conservation as the bottom line is the less I use, the less it costs me. Charge me more for an incandescent bulb, then at least I have the choice to either pay more for the bulb or replace the fixture. Now I have to pay more for the CF or LED bulb (vs the incandescent) AND replace the fixture. I am stocking up on incandescents even if they cost me more in the long run

Workable gas nozzels COULD have been mandated, but of course none of the people who wrote this law, ever poured their own gas into their own piece of equipment. And this does nothing to help with conservation. This has to do with some nitwit needing to flex his legislative muscles. Actually I have no clue as to why this was implemented. The Canadian firm which manufactured this specific gas can nozel still has regular nozel gas cans, but they cannot be sold in the USA, only in Canada. If I ever visit Canada, I know what I am buying to bring back.

I was watching a show, I think it was Bering Sea Gold or something like that, and the guy was trying to fill the generator on his boat with one of these new gas cans and he could not get the last 1/2 gallon out of the gas can and started cursing. It was then I realized that this was a national thing not just NY. Stupid, Stupid Stupid.

Go buy a new gas can and try and fill a weed wacker. Impossible without help from a second party (and not even then).

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:09 pm
by Sue U
oldr_n_wsr wrote:How about the new gas cans? Stupid rules, stupid legislature that the gov should not even be involved in. Tell me how this piece of law has helped anyone?
I had a case a number of years back where a gas can without a safety nozzle fell or was knocked to the floor in the basement of a residence. The fumes were ignited by a water heater and the resulting explosion and fire severely burned a three-year-old child accompanying his mother to do the laundry. The injuries were (and to this day are) horrific. See that boy, and then ask me if I give a shit whether you can get the last few ounces out of your gas can because it has a safety spout.

Oh, and the OP, like virtually everything I have ever seen from Fred, is just moronic.

Re: GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS...GUNS....etc.

Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:17 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
Oh, but it's for the kids. first line of appealing to the heart strings
First off, you don't store a gas can in your basement. Second, you teach your kids to stay away from such things. Third don't expect the rest of us to be legistated for your faults.

It's like the guy who ran over his kid with his SUV. He is lobbying for all SUV's to have backup cameras. He could have had that installed in his SUV when he bought it (it was an option on his BMW SUV) but now he feels the need all of us "careful" drivers need this rear pointed camera.

I say stop the madness. If you are stupid enough to have a gas can in your basement or are stupid enough not to look behind your vehicle (my dog is outside most of the time and I check to see where he is BEFORE I back up) then it's your loss/problem. Not everything can be legislated away.

I do feel bad for the kid(s) but parent stupidity needs to be taken into account. I had child locks on my cabinets so that my kids could not drink Drano. Common sense needs to be applied rather than law.