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Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:26 pm
by dales
He has often stated that gasoline in the United States is too cheap. He claims he would like to see it around $7/gallon (never mind what the economic consequences would be). I say it is still TOO EXPENSIVE and should be under $3/gallon. So there! :nana
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NEW YORK (AP) — A sharp decline in the price of oil this month is making gasoline cheaper at a time of year when it typically gets more expensive. It's a relief to motorists and business owners and a positive development for the economy.

Over the past three weeks, the price of oil has fallen by 9 percent to $88 a barrel. That has helped extend a slide in gasoline prices that began in late February. Nationwide, average retail prices have fallen by 28 cents per gallon, or 7 percent, since Feb. 27, to $3.51 per gallon. Analysts say pump prices could fall another 20 cents over the next two months.


The price of oil is being driven lower by rising global supplies and lower-than-expected demand in the world's two largest economies, the United States and China. As oil and gasoline become more affordable, the economy benefits because goods become less expensive to transport and motorists have more money to spend on other things. Over the course of a year, a decline of 10 cents per gallon translates to $13 billion in savings at the pump.

Diesel and jet fuel have also gotten cheaper in recent weeks, which is good news for truckers, airlines and other energy-intensive businesses.

"It makes a big difference to my bottom line," says Mike Mitternight, owner of a heating and air conditioning service company in Metairie, La. He has five pickup trucks that can burn $1,000 of gas per week when prices are near $4 a gallon. Lately he's been paying as little as $3.19, and saving $200 a week.

Gasoline prices typically rise in the late winter and spring as refiners shut down parts of their plants to perform maintenance and begin making more costly blends of gasoline required by federal clean-air regulations. The trend was earlier and less dramatic this year. Pump prices only came within 15 cents of last year's peak.

Oil production is growing quickly in the U.S. and Canada, helping boost global supplies. And some of the factors that pushed prices higher the two previous years — political turmoil in North Africa and the Middle East and refinery disruptions in the U.S. — haven't materialized this spring.

At the same time, demand for fuels is growing slower than expected. China, the world's biggest oil importer, is experiencing slower-than-expected economic growth. And much of Europe is in recession.

In the U.S., wintry weather in the Midwest and Northeast has kept more drivers off the roads this spring, analysts say.

The typical U.S. household will spend an estimated $326 on gasoline this April, the equivalent of 7.8 percent of median household income, according to Fred Rozell, an analyst at GasBuddy.com. That's $38 less than last April, when households spent 8.8 percent of their income on gas.

"It's the difference between going out to dinner one more time or not," says Diane Swonk, chief economist at Mesirow Financial. "It matters."

The U.S. government releases its initial estimate of economic output during the first three months of 2013 on Friday. Economists forecast the economy grew at an annual rate of 3.1 percent, compared with 0.4 percent in the final three months of 2012.

Philip Verleger, an economist who studies energy prices, says that many monthly household expenses are fixed, but gasoline is one of the few big expenses that varies. That means when gasoline prices rise — or fall — people notice.

"This is the equivalent of a pay raise," he says.

Shippers and airlines are also benefiting. Fuel is by far airlines' biggest and most volatile cost. A one-cent decline in the price of jet fuel saves the U.S. airline industry $180 million over a year, according to the industry group Airlines for America. Lower energy prices also give potential customers more money to spend on air travel.

Airlines aren't ready to celebrate yet because the relief could prove to be short-lived, says John Heimlich, chief economist at Airlines for America. "It looks promising but we're not counting our chickens," he said.

Political turmoil or refinery problems could crop up at any time. Analysts are particularly worried about the transition of power in Venezuela, a major oil exporter, after the death of President Hugo Chavez. Violence has erupted in the wake of a closely contested election, and the financial situation of the country is precarious. Analysts worry that the country's oil production could slip.

Also, refinery maintenance in the Midwest is already affecting prices there. Drivers in Ohio, Michigan and Indiana are paying only slightly less than they did last year at this time, and prices there have been creeping up over the last couple of weeks.

Gasoline prices reached a high this year of $3.79 per gallon on Feb. 27. Last year's peak was $3.94, and it came on April 6; last year's low was $3.22 on Dec. 20. The average price for all of 2012 was $3.63 per gallon. The Energy Department forecasts the 2013 average will be $3.56.

Analysts say there are limits to how far oil and gasoline prices will fall. Countries in the developing world are still growing fast and pushing world oil demand higher, perhaps to a record this year. And if oil prices fall too far drillers will be forced to cut production to try to stem the decline.

That means Mike Mitternight, the small business owner in Louisiana, won't likely get his wish: He'd like to see gasoline prices between $2 and $3 per gallon.

"I still think it's high and we could bring it lower," he says.

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:32 pm
by Lord Jim
:ok

There's no other single thing that could help kick start the economy, provide small businesses with additional capital for hiring, and give relief to working class people (in the form of lower fuel and food costs) than a reduction in the cost of energy...

This is GREAT news; I hope it continues. :clap:

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:38 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
He has often stated that gasoline in the United States is too cheap. He claims he would like to see it around $7/gallon (never mind what the economic consequences would be).
Didn't Ross Perot also call for very high gas prices when he was running for Pres?

I paid $3.79 a gallon last night. (regular)

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:13 pm
by Sue U
oldr_n_wsr wrote:I paid $3.79 a gallon last night. (regular)
I paid $3.13/gal yesterday but didn't look too hard to find anything cheaper. I know there are some stations a few miles away that usually sell for a few pennies less, but I wasn't going to drive that far to save 50 cents.

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:45 pm
by Andrew D
Lord Jim wrote:There's no other single thing that could help kick start the economy, provide small businesses with additional capital for hiring, and give relief to working class people (in the form of lower fuel and food costs more and better jobs) than a reduction in the cost of energy an appropriately huge investment in our public infrastructure ...

That would be This is GREAT news :clap:
Fixed that for you.

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:52 am
by Jarlaxle
$3.339/gallon last week...not great, but not too bad.

The fillup was $80. Note to self: figure out why I pumped ~24 gallons into my Caddy when the gauge showed about 1/3. (I have made the brilliant deduction that my gas gauge is not quite accurate.)

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:22 am
by Lord Jim
$3.339/gallon last week...not great, but not too bad.
Jarl, if the price of gas dropped to $3.33 around here, we'd all think we had died and gone to heaven....

$4.15 the last I checked...

When it dropped last fall, it went from a high of $4.59 down to a low of $3.75 (all of these number are based on our local 76 station, which tends to have some of the cheapest prices in town) then it started going back up, got back up to $4.27, and now has started dropping back again...

Statewide, if we could get the price down to below the $3.00 mark on a sustained basis, (along with the drop in other oil provided energy products) it would obviously be a huge boon for our economy...

We might even see the unemployment rate drop to something approaching the national average...(It's currently at 9.4%)

With more people working, tax revenues rise and deficits decline....

Unlike any stimulus package, lower energy prices not only cost the government nothing, they actually add revenues.... (reducing pressure to make social spending cuts) and the affects come very quickly...

And in addition to the multitude of other benefits I have pointed out, lower energy costs also make our manufactured products more price competitive (without reducing wages) and help save and create jobs in that better paying sector...(real, sustainable jobs)

Lower energy costs provide a huge benefit to the economy overall in a host of ways, but by far the greatest beneficiaries are the middle class, working class, and lower class folks. The worse off you are economically, the more you benefit from lower energy costs.

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:32 am
by Gob
ok, I'll bite...

I just filled up at $1.56 Au litre = $5.90 Au per gallon = $6.50 US.

UK £1.35 per litre = £5.10 per gallon = $7.80 US

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:45 am
by Lord Jim
It's time for the Aussies and the Brits to descend on parliament with torches and pitchforks Strop...

As I've said before, every time you post the cost of gas in Australia and the UK, it never makes me say, "Gee what's wrong with us? We should stop complaining.".....(Which I'm guessing is sort of the reaction you think would be appropriate... 8-) )

All it does is make me scratch my head and say, "Gee, what's wrong with them? Why don't they start complaining?"

I guess y'all have just been conditioned to accept this sort of thing....

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
by Gob
Yep, it's due to us being dutiful tax payers. :D

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:23 am
by rubato
The cost of energy includes the cost to the economy of importing more oil or exporting less (why both Scotland and Norway have abundant domestic oil and very high fuel prices), costs of pollution, and the costs of encouraging a pattern of wasteful use which makes the population vulnerable to price 'shocks'. Having oil prices too low leads to people buying lower mileage vehicles which amplifies the injury to them when prices go up. Having low fuel prices removes an economic incentive to innovate more efficient forms of transportation and save costs by better insulation.

Low motor fuel prices:

Nigeria
Venezuela

Low electricity Prices:

India Having electricity prices too low reduces the costs of pumping ground water so that farmers in India use water wastefully and are rapidly depleting the aquifers. Higher electricity prices would also help pay to upgrade the grid and make power delivery more reliable and safer.

Not paradise. A bad mistake. That is why so many of the countries with higher stds of living than ours have higher fuel costs.



yrs,
rubato

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:41 am
by Lord Jim
One thing about rube's strawmen....

No matter how many times they get blown down, he just keeps putting them back up:
Low motor fuel prices:

Nigeria
Venezuela

Low electricity Prices:

India Having electricity prices too low reduces the costs of pumping ground water so that farmers in India use water wastefully and are rapidly depleting the aquifers.
As I have pointed out to you every single time you have made these intellectually dishonest false comparisons, no one is suggesting that the government subsidize the cost of energy to provide it at an artificially low price, as those governments do.

It cracks me up the way it is frequently the very same folks who whine about the pain of "austerity" that also favor increases in energy prices that would systematically toss tens of millions more people into poverty.

On the other hand, low energy prices will put millions more back to work, including in good paying manufacturing jobs, and increase government revenues that will in turn reduce the political pressure for the "austerity" that they claim to so despise....

Rube, why do you hate working class and poor people?

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:51 am
by Gob
Why should they be exempt from his misanthropy?

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:25 am
by dales
Rube, why do you hate working class and poor people?
Because he is an elitist who believes he is superior and knows what is best for the "masses".

Image

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:49 am
by Sean
rubato wrote:That is why so many of the countries with higher stds of living than ours have higher fuel costs.
So now you're saying that the UK and Australia have better standards of living than the US?

Better than constantly slagging off places you've never visited I suppose but I wish you'd make your mind up!

:lol:

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:11 am
by Daisy
You can all come back and moan about petrol prices when you're paying $9.36 a gallon like I am.

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:34 am
by The Hen
I am happy for the excessive taxes I pay on fuel to go to funding the programs that they are designated to support.

Road upgrades and improvements is always a hard project to fund for any municipal government. it is appropriate that the heavier toll a person places on a road, the more they should contribute towards upkeep and upgrades.

Mind you, we have become a one car family and I am a devoted "bus wanker".

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:40 am
by Sean
He-he... Bus wanker...

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:26 am
by Daisy
Ahhh Hen if only my fuel duty was going on road improvements but since its like driving through a freshly shelled warzone and Gideon is using the cash to help "plug the defecit" I bloody well object. Especially when on top of that I'm paying over £200 quid a year in road tax.

Motorists in the UK are getting a daily shafting from government after government. I considered using public transport for my commute but it would be a bus and two trams and a half hour longer than driving and would perhaps save me a tenner a week.

Screwed either way.

Re: Bad News For That Rubato Person

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:09 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
Money collected never seems to end up where it was supposed to be targetted for. Originally the tolls acros the bridges to get off/on LI were to pay off the bonds on the bridges and for upkeep. If that were the case, the Throgs Neck and Whitestone bridge tolls would be about a $1 now. Instead the MTA just keeps upping the tolls to pay for the subway system, the LIRR, Metro North and a host of other things, meanwhile the bridges deteriorate and they have to float bonds to repair them.

Same with gas taxes, they were targeted to build/repair the roads, instead it goes into the general fund and the roads/overpasses/bridges deteriorate.