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Maybe the sardines like being in the can.

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:18 pm
by rubato
Maybe they do:


http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2013/why- ... -0604.html
Why innovation thrives in cities
Double a city’s population and its economic productivity goes up 130 percent. MIT researchers think they know why.
...
Planning for productivity

“When you pack people together, something special happens,” says Alex “Sandy” Pentland, the Toshiba Professor of Media Arts and Science and director of the Human Dynamics Laboratory. “This is the sort of thing that Adam Smith wanted to explain. He explained it through specialization: People were able to narrow what they did to get better at it, and because they were nearby, they could trade with each other. And Karl Marx described a different kind of specialization, which is classes — management class, owner class and proletariat. And other people have come up with other explanations for this basic phenomenon.”

What the new work shows, Pentland says, is that “a lot of the things that people have been arguing about for centuries are not actually things that need explaining. They just come from the basic pattern of social networks.”

Re: Maybe the sardines like being in the can.

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:40 pm
by dales
Lagos, Nigeria a city of some 12 million is noted for it's innovation and technical wizardry

Image

Re: Maybe the sardines like being in the can.

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:01 pm
by Lord Jim
The availability of different types of data varied across the hundreds of cities in the United States and Europe that the researchers considered.
Gee, now that would appear to undermine the theory for a start...Last time I checked, there were a number of cities outside of the United States and Europe....
Macy cautions that while the researchers’ measures of social-tie density correlate well with productivity, that doesn’t rule out the possibility that other factors are at work. “They’re suggesting a line of research based on a generative model that fits the data really well,” he says. “But obviously, when you fit a model well to data, that doesn’t mean that that’s the only model that could do it.”
Ya think? :lol:

This is what happens when pocket protector types (yes, I realize that's a dated expression, but you get my drift) attempt to engage in sociological and historical analysis....

It's not a pretty sight.... :D

Re: Maybe the sardines like being in the can.

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 11:01 pm
by Andrew D
Might as well move along, folks. Nothing to see here but more rubato-trolling twaddle.

Re: Maybe the sardines like being in the can.

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:33 am
by MajGenl.Meade
Some privilege checking needs to happen, rubato

Re: Maybe the sardines like being in the can.

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:01 pm
by rubato
The study was intended to compare the effects of population density between otherwise similar populations. Not otherwise dissimilar populations.


Amazing how the blazingly obvious can be missed by the very stupid. As I have said; hatred makes you stupid. Either that or you are innately stupid and innately stupid people are drawn to hatred. Tough to say.


From the article none of you actually read:
"... The work could, however, have very real consequences for urban planning. For instance, Pentland says, there’s evidence that the principle of superlinear scaling does not hold in poor countries, even in cities with the same population densities as major European and American cities. “The reason is that the transportation is so bad,” Pentland says. “People might as well be in the village, because they only interact with their little local group.
Similarly, Pan says, “People know that when a city’s population grows, there’s scaling, and the productivity increases. But in these megacities, especially in China, no one knows whether that scaling will continue, because no other city is that big.”

In Beijing today, Pan says, “it’s really hard to move from one side to the other. I believe, personally, that social-tie density will drop because you can’t really move freely anymore with the population increases. Unless Beijing solves these transportation problems, pumping in more people won’t continue to drive the density.”

Pentland adds that another figure that usually scales superlinearly with urban population is crime. But an exception to that rule is Zurich. “For various reasons, its population has exploded in the last 20 years,” Pentland says. “And they knew this was going to happen because of demographics. So they invested just an unholy amount of money in public transportation. You end up with this cloud of towns around Zurich, but everybody can get into Zurich in 15 minutes. More than 60 percent of the population moves into the center of Zurich during the day.” As a consequence, Pentland says, Zurich enjoys all of the productivity benefits of social-tie density with much lower crime rates.

“In the next 10 years, we expect that India and China will each build a hundred cities of a million people or more,” Pentland says. “Hopefully, what we can do is help them make better choices in designing these cities.”” ...

yrs,
rubato

Re: Maybe the sardines like being in the can.

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:12 pm
by rubato
The point, as it often is, is that the more we know about how things work the better we can plan for the future and the better the future will be. (as Zurich in the article did)



yrs,
rubato

Re: Maybe the sardines like being in the can.

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:14 pm
by dales
Amazing how the blazingly obvious can be missed by the very stupid. As I have said; hatred makes you stupid. Either that or you are innately stupid and innately stupid people are drawn to hatred. Tough to say.
I can't make up my mind, my side hurt from laughing. :lol:

Re: Maybe the sardines like being in the can.

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:15 pm
by Lord Jim
Once again, Perfesser Leaded Rice gives us an object lesson in how not to conduct science....

First, begin with an over-generalized conclusion and then try to make a collection of incomplete data points with numerous contradictory data points fit that conclusion...

Then call everyone who calls you on it a "hater"... :D

Re: Maybe the sardines like being in the can.

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:14 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
Being what some might call the "pocket protector" type (Electrical Engineer) I think I can take a stab at this subject. ;)

Cities are going to attact (more) people as there are jobs there. Not many jobs out in the boon docks, and when it comes to putting food on the table for your family, the lure of the city wins. And as more people move in to the city, more jobs are created, more of a talant pools exists so even more companies move in creating more jobs..........and around it goes. a company is not going to look for real estate in bumf%^ck Idaho (nothing against Idaho) to open a high tech engineering firm when 90% of the population are potato farmers.

What happens then is people start spreading out as home/apartment prices go up as there is little available space to build new dwellings and then transit systems are needed as the roads nearby cannot handle all the people with cars. (aka Long Island, Westchester and parts of NJ).
Planning for the future and projected capacity needs is nice, but the future is not cut in stone nor is the timeline. Too fast a growth overwhelms the system and forces cities/suburbs to play catchup. Too slow a growth and capacity sits idle waisting money.


ETA
Although I do believe that Micron (computer memory IS maker) did open up a center in Idaho (or maybe Iowa). Go figure.
Yes, I just looked it up, Micron started in Boise Idaho, but that's a city none the less.
:mrgreen:

Re: Maybe the sardines like being in the can.

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:37 pm
by dales
Boise,Idaho was really in the hinterlands in 1984......it still is. :mrgreen:

Microsoft started in Redmond, WA in 1982......wtf?

Apple Corp started in Cupertino,CA (huh?) 1977.

Hardly giant metorpolises.

HP started in Palo Alto in a freaking gargae in the 1940's ferchrisakes!

Once again rube exposes his limited knowledge base and when called on it, claims he's being "hated on".

TooFunny!

Re: Maybe the sardines like being in the can.

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:24 pm
by Lord Jim
when called on it, claims he's being "hated on".
Yes, a master at that is our rube...

Every time he gets caught with his trousers at half mast, he plays the "hater" card rather than man up to his fuck up....

It's just not in his DNA to do otherwise....

It reminds me of the way Steve used to claim he was being "smeared" if you quoted him verbatim, rather than own what he said....

It's nothing but a very transparent, diversionary "look at the shiny object not my fuck up" tactic...

"If you point out how I fucked up, you're a hater and I'm the victim, and that's the issue, not my fuck up"...

Rube's been singing that tune since Nelson was an ensign.... 8-)

Re: Maybe the sardines like being in the can.

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:56 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
dales wrote:Boise,Idaho was really in the hinterlands in 1984......it still is. :mrgreen:

Microsoft started in Redmond, WA in 1982......wtf?

Apple Corp started in Cupertino,CA (huh?) 1977.

Hardly giant metorpolises.

HP started in Palo Alto in a freaking gargae in the 1940's ferchrisakes!
One thing in common in those companies is they started with very few people.

And the "REAL" HP now is Agilent.

Re: Maybe the sardines like being in the can.

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:22 pm
by Lord Jim
It's a shame Albert Einstein didn't grow up in New York City....

He might actually have accomplished something...

Re: Maybe the sardines like being in the can.

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:36 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
Wasn't he at nearby Princeton for a while?

Re: Maybe the sardines like being in the can.

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:19 pm
by dales
Yes, but he flunked out. :nana :nana :nana

Re: Maybe the sardines like being in the can.

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:32 pm
by Joe Guy
Image

"We're brainstorming a high productivity plan"