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Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 6:13 pm
by dales
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SANTIAGO DE COMPOSTELA, Spain (AP) — A Spanish train that hurtled off the rails and smashed into a security wall as it rounded a bend was going so fast that carriages tumbled off the tracks like dominos, killing 80 people, according to eyewitness accounts and video footage obtained Thursday.

An Associated Press analysis of video images suggests that the train may have been traveling at twice the speed limit for that stretch of track.

Spain's government said two probes have been launched into the cause of Wednesday night's crash near this Christian festival city in northwest Spain. The Interior Ministry raised the death toll to 80 in what was Spain's deadliest train wreck in four decades, while 95 remained hospitalized, 36 in critical condition, among them four children.

Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy, a native of Santiago de Compostela, toured the crash scene alongside rescue workers and went to a nearby hospital to visit those wounded and their families.

"For a native of Santiago, like me, this is the saddest day," said Rajoy, who declared Spain would observe a three-day period of mourning. He said judicial authorities and the Public Works Ministry had launched parallel investigations into what caused the crash.

Eyewitness accounts backed by security-camera footage of the moment of disaster suggested that the eight-carriage train was going too fast as it tried to turn left underneath a road bridge. The train company Renfe said 218 passengers and five crew members were on board. Spanish officials said the speed limit on that section of track is 80 kilometers (50 miles) per hour.

An Associated Press estimate of the train's speed at the moment of impact using the time stamp of the video and the estimated distance between two pylons gives a range of 144-192 kph (89-119 mph). Another estimate calculated on the basis of the typical distance between railroad ties gives a range of 156-182 kph (96-112 mph).

"I saw the train coming out of the bend at great speed and then there was a big noise," one eyewitness who lives beside the train line, Consuelo Domingues, told The Associated Press. "... Then everybody tried to get out of the train."

Santiago officials had been preparing for the city's internationally celebrated Catholic festival Thursday but canceled it and took control of the city's main indoor sports arena to use as a makeshift morgue. There, relatives of the dead could be seen sobbing and embracing each other.

The U.S. State Department said five American citizens were among the injured.

The Interior Ministry, responsible for law and order, ruled out terrorism as a cause.

It was Spain's deadliest train accident since 1972, when a train collided with a bus in southwest Spain, killing 86 people and injuring 112.

"July 24 will no longer be the eve of a day of celebration but rather one commemorating one of the saddest days in the history of Galicia," said Alberto Nunez Feijoo, regional president of Galicia. Santiago de Compostela is its capital.

The accident created a scene that was "Dante-esque," Feijoo said. He said Galicia would observe seven days of mourning.



Rescue workers spent the night searching through smashed carriages alongside the tracks.

As dawn broke, cranes brought to the scene were used to lift the carriages away from the tracks. Rescue workers collected passengers' scattered luggage and loaded it into a truck next to the tracks.

Rescuers described a scene of horror immediately after the crash. Smoke billowed from at least one carriage that had caught fire, while another had been torn into two parts.

Residents of the residential neighborhood closest to the rail line struggled to help victims out of the toppled cars. Some passengers were pulled out of broken windows. Television images showed one man atop a carriage lying on its side, using a pickaxe to try to smash through a window. Other rescuers used rocks to try to free survivors from the fiery wreckage.

Nearby, rescue workers lined up bodies covered in blankets alongside the tracks.

State-owned train operator Renfe said the crash happened at 8.41 p.m. (1841 GMT) about 2.5 miles (4 kilometers) south of Santiago de Compostela.

Spanish media said the train had two drivers aboard and both survived.

However, Galician court officials said the train had only one driver. Court spokeswoman Maria Pardo Rios said the driver survived and was expected to give a statement to police later Thursday. She declined to name the driver but said he was not being treated as the suspect of a crime.

Renfe said it and Adif, another state-owned company that manages tracks, signals and other railway infrastructure, were cooperating with a judge appointed to investigate the accident.

It was the world's third major rail accident this month.

On July 12, six people were killed and nearly 200 were injured when four cars of a passenger train derailed south of Paris.

On July 6, 72 cars carrying crude oil derailed in Lac-Megantic, Ontario, setting off explosions and fires that killed 47 people.

Catholic pilgrims converge on Santiago de Compostela annually to celebrate a festival honoring St. James, a disciple of Jesus whose remains are said to rest in a shrine. The city is the main gathering point for those who reach the end of the El Camino de Santiago pilgrimage route that has drawn Christians since the Middle Ages.

Several injured passengers said they felt a strong vibration just before the cars jumped the tracks, according to Xabier Martinez, a photographer who talked with them after arriving at the scene as rescue workers were still removing bodies.

One passenger, Ricardo Montero, told the Cadena Ser radio station that "when the train reached that bend it began to flip over, many times, with some carriages ending up on top of others, leaving many people trapped below. We had to get under the carriages to get out."

Another passenger, Sergio Prego, told Cadena Ser the train "traveled very fast" just before it derailed and the cars flipped upside down, on their sides and into the air.

"I've been very lucky because I'm one of the few able to walk out," Prego said.

The Alvia 730 series train started from Madrid and was scheduled to end its journey at El Ferrol, about 95 kilometers (60 miles) north of Santiago de Compostela. Alvias operate high-speed services but do not go as fast as Spain's fastest bullet trains, called AVEs.

The maximum Alvia speed is 250 kph (155 mph) on tracks made especially for the AVEs, and they travel at a maximum speed of 220 kph (137 mph) on normal gauge rails.

Other major train crashes in Spain include a 1944 accident involving three trains that crashed in a tunnel. That disaster produced wildly disputed death tolls ranging from the government's official count of 78 to more than 500, according to later research.

In 2006, 43 people died when a subway train crashed because of excessive speed in the southern city of Valencia. In 2004, 191 died when al-Qaida-inspired terrorists detonated 10 bombs on four Madrid commuter trains.

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Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:24 pm
by Gob

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:23 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
Trains don't have a "black box"?

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:48 pm
by dales
They do I the USA, this is Spain (where they were too cheap to re-engineer the rail bed for high speed trains).

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:42 pm
by Miles
dales wrote:They do I the USA, this is Spain (where they were too cheap to re-engineer the rail bed for high speed trains).
The article stated that the speed limit is 80 mph for that section of track. They estimate the train was traveling at almost 40 mph over that number. Here in the US that would be considered human error not mechanical unless they find a broken rail or wheel. Before you put your expert hat on I retired from the railroad. ;)

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:50 pm
by Daisy
This train did have a black box recorder. There were also supposed safety systems in place to warn the driver of the slow down zone. Now if that failed, the driver is exonerated if not he's toast.

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:19 pm
by dales
Miles wrote:
dales wrote:They do I the USA, this is Spain (where they were too cheap to re-engineer the rail bed for high speed trains).
The article stated that the speed limit is 80 mph for that section of track. They estimate the train was traveling at almost 40 mph over that number. Here in the US that would be considered human error not mechanical unless they find a broken rail or wheel. Before you put your expert hat on I retired from the railroad. ;)
The limit for that section is only 80 kph which is about 50 mph......the screwball engineer was going twice that.

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:30 pm
by Lord Jim
This train did have a black box recorder
\

I heard that on the news too...
the screwball engineer was going twice that.
Unless something had malfunctioned with the internal system of the train that made it impossible for him to control the speed...

In which case one would expect numerous panicked radio transmissions from him, raising the alarm...
There were also supposed safety systems in place to warn the driver of the slow down zone.
It seems to me that state-of-the-art bullet trains with this level of sophistication ought to have the capability to have the route programmed into their system and slow down on their own in a situation like this.

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:52 pm
by dales
It would seem so.

Meanwhile we're safe here in the USA with our mid-20th century "streamliners" topping out at 78mph :lol:

Plus they have what's known as a "dead man's throttle".

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:30 pm
by Long Run
Quite a rash of train accident in countries known for safe, efficient, high speed rail.

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:01 pm
by dales
Japan has had its bullet train since 1964 without an accident, France the same since 1982.

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:35 pm
by Crackpot
This is Spain's first

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:04 am
by Econoline
dales wrote:Meanwhile we're safe here in the USA with our mid-20th century "streamliners" topping out at 78mph :lol:
Mid-century? How about 1934?
On May 26, 1934, it set a speed record for travel between Denver, Colorado, and Chicago, Illinois, when it made a 1,015-mile (1,633 km) non-stop "Dawn-to-Dusk" dash in 13 hours 5 minutes at an average speed of 77 mph (124 km/h). For one section of the run it reached a speed of 112.5 mph (181 km/h), just short of the then US land speed record of 115 mph (185 km/h). The historic dash inspired a 1934 film and the train's nickname, "The Silver Streak"

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:38 am
by dales
My old man was a train nut, so I know about trains..choo-choo.

Getting back to Espana - - - the engineer is toast. :|

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:55 am
by Jarlaxle
Lord Jim wrote:
This train did have a black box recorder
\

I heard that on the news too...
the screwball engineer was going twice that.
Unless something had malfunctioned with the internal system of the train that made it impossible for him to control the speed...

In which case one would expect numerous panicked radio transmissions from him, raising the alarm...
I wonder if the SPEEDOMETER was malfunctioning...people tend to see what they expect and accept it.

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:38 pm
by dales
The scenery going by at twice the normal speed?

I doubt it.

I thinks it was carelessness and misplaced bravado that will hang this fool out to dry.

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 2:58 pm
by Lord Jim
It seems inconceivable to me that a person couldn't tell the difference between 50 miles an hour and 100 miles an hour even without a speedometer....

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:00 pm
by rubato
I think I'll wait until the investigation is done to offer an opinion.

Making me a real outlier.



yrs,
rubato

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:57 pm
by Gob
The driver of a train that derailed in Spain killing 78 people has been accused of "reckless manslaughter", the interior minister has said.
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Train driver Francisco Jose Garzon Amo was injured in the accident
Jorge Fernandez Diaz said Francisco Jose Garzon Amo, who was slightly hurt in Wednesday's accident, had been taken to a police station.

Mr Garzon is suspected of driving too fast on a bend. Reports say the train was travelling at more than double the speed limit at the time of the crash.

He has refused to answer questions

Re: Spanish Jack Ass

Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:23 am
by Miles
Gob wrote:
The driver of a train that derailed in Spain killing 78 people has been accused of "reckless manslaughter", the interior minister has said.
Image
Train driver Francisco Jose Garzon Amo was injured in the accident
Jorge Fernandez Diaz said Francisco Jose Garzon Amo, who was slightly hurt in Wednesday's accident, had been taken to a police station.

Mr Garzon is suspected of driving too fast on a bend. Reports say the train was travelling at more than double the speed limit at the time of the crash.

He has refused to answer questions
If this is true then he deservised the charges. My job on the railroad was to maintain the crossing protections and also the signals that governed the trian movements. If I was neglegent in my job I was also considered as responsibility for criminal charges for manslaughter.