We will not leave the world to the Nazis, religious nutcases and other assorted bigots who wish us dead, no matter how many millions of them voted to turn the clock back. We will not go back.
When We Rise
When We Rise
"The dildo of consequence rarely comes lubed." -- Eileen Rose
"Colonialism is not 'winning' - it's an unsustainable model. Like your hairline." -- Candace Linklater
"Colonialism is not 'winning' - it's an unsustainable model. Like your hairline." -- Candace Linklater
Re: When We Rise
More liberal indoctrination of our youth, the backward will say.
As for me, I can't wait to see it!
As for me, I can't wait to see it!
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
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Bicycle Bill
- Posts: 9743
- Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:10 pm
- Location: Living in a suburb of Berkeley on the Prairie along with my Yellow Rose of Texas
Re: When We Rise
The word 'liberal' derives originally from the Latin word 'liber', which means 'free'. Originally, those persons described as being 'liberal' were those that opposed restrictions, especially unfair and totalitarian ones. It is only recently that it has turned into the epithet it has become, as certain factions tried to depict 'liberalism' as a totally unrestrained attitude of liberty, largesse, and an attitude of laissez-faire and attempted to equate it with socialism, which to them is only one step removed from the horrors of ... gasp! ... c-o-m-m-u-n-i-s-m.
It is also from 'liber' that we derive the word 'libra', according to some persons; and we all know what the image of a scale, in balance, symbolizes ... fairness, honesty, justice, and above all else, equal treatment for all. It is no accident that the image of Justice, whether found within the halls of the Supreme Court building or on the top of the Old Bailey in London, is a blindfolded goddess holding a scale in which to weigh the evidence and only the evidence, free from any other outside influence.
So if someone wants to call me a "liberal", I can accept that. I will take that word and wave it like a flag. I shall wear it proudly like a crown. I intend to reclaim that word and educate people so that they will know what being a liberal really is, rather than what conservatives, reactionaries, and members of the 'alt-right' (whateverinthehell that is!) are trying to make it mean.
-"BB"-
It is also from 'liber' that we derive the word 'libra', according to some persons; and we all know what the image of a scale, in balance, symbolizes ... fairness, honesty, justice, and above all else, equal treatment for all. It is no accident that the image of Justice, whether found within the halls of the Supreme Court building or on the top of the Old Bailey in London, is a blindfolded goddess holding a scale in which to weigh the evidence and only the evidence, free from any other outside influence.
So if someone wants to call me a "liberal", I can accept that. I will take that word and wave it like a flag. I shall wear it proudly like a crown. I intend to reclaim that word and educate people so that they will know what being a liberal really is, rather than what conservatives, reactionaries, and members of the 'alt-right' (whateverinthehell that is!) are trying to make it mean.
-"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?
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Burning Petard
- Posts: 4486
- Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:35 pm
- Location: Near Bear, Delaware
Trump is not a Nazi
But he sure has lots of friends who are.
Jim Wright (as Lord Jim calls him, Jim Wrong) has a blog called Stonekettle. He posted there recently about how he has been blocked from Facebook for violation of community standards. It seems he has offended some people for his political rhetoric, and other people for not properly worshiping at the literary feet of Robert Heinlein. The post now has more than 400 comments. I quote one of them:
Please, this isn't just about you. It's not about those in the science fiction fandom community who have been harassing you. It's not about rabid Trump supporters who don't understand what fascism is and simply are foolish enough to fall for his lies.
It's about one word spoken by a Nazi recently in D.C. A word that should strike not fear but abject terror into the hearts of every free American. A word that signals the end of freedom.
Richard B. Spencer last Saturday gave a speech to members of the National Policy Institute gathered at the Ronald Reagan Building. No matter what they want to call themselves their self description labels the group Nazis. And he used this word. The fact of the meeting and speech got lots of press, but the word did not. You have to watch the speech to know he said it, and unless you are of German decent or really seriously studied WW II you probably wouldn't even know how horrible the word is, and may even ignore it.
Carabella correctly just said the Holocaust started with words, and I'll go further and say it started with one word in particular. The word Spencer used in his speech that left me sick to my stomach with terror.
Lugenpresse.
If you were to just say "lugen presse" it only translates to "lying press." No big deal huh? But the word "Lugenpresse" capitalized and all one word instead of two has an entirely different meaning. It is used to describe anyone who spoke out against Hitler and his concept of a master race, and once you were labeled Lugenpresse you were walking dead, an "enemy of the people," about to disappear into a concentration camp no matter your race, religion, nationality, or affiliation. They didn't just kill Jews.
It is a word that signals the end of freedom of speech - the end of all freedoms. It signals their readiness to murder all who disagree with them.
Think I'm exaggerating? Think it's silly to imagine it could happen again, and that it certainly can't happen here?
Bet you also thought Trump was a buffoon who couldn't possibly be elected too didn't you? [Looking at the actions of his transition team, Trump did not believe it either.]
You have an opportunity to take a serious stance to uphold freedom before Lugenpresse has a chance to take hold; to perhaps even help stop it from taking root. Please don't squander it.
End of quote. Lugenpresse. When an experienced writer or speaker uses a foreign word rather than an accurate translation, it is because they want to bring with the word all the baggage and emotional power the word carried in the original language. The Donald may not be a Nazi, but he clearly has beliefs that the POTUS is some kind of Emperor. The Donald clearly indicated in his on-the-record discussion with the staff of the NY Times, that he cannot have a conflict of interest as President. Not that he will not, he says he cannot, that by law he has no restraints. I pray the US military has more personal honor and backbone. I pray the mainstream media will find it own backbone abandon the silly standard of faux news 'fair and balanced'.
snailgate
Jim Wright (as Lord Jim calls him, Jim Wrong) has a blog called Stonekettle. He posted there recently about how he has been blocked from Facebook for violation of community standards. It seems he has offended some people for his political rhetoric, and other people for not properly worshiping at the literary feet of Robert Heinlein. The post now has more than 400 comments. I quote one of them:
Please, this isn't just about you. It's not about those in the science fiction fandom community who have been harassing you. It's not about rabid Trump supporters who don't understand what fascism is and simply are foolish enough to fall for his lies.
It's about one word spoken by a Nazi recently in D.C. A word that should strike not fear but abject terror into the hearts of every free American. A word that signals the end of freedom.
Richard B. Spencer last Saturday gave a speech to members of the National Policy Institute gathered at the Ronald Reagan Building. No matter what they want to call themselves their self description labels the group Nazis. And he used this word. The fact of the meeting and speech got lots of press, but the word did not. You have to watch the speech to know he said it, and unless you are of German decent or really seriously studied WW II you probably wouldn't even know how horrible the word is, and may even ignore it.
Carabella correctly just said the Holocaust started with words, and I'll go further and say it started with one word in particular. The word Spencer used in his speech that left me sick to my stomach with terror.
Lugenpresse.
If you were to just say "lugen presse" it only translates to "lying press." No big deal huh? But the word "Lugenpresse" capitalized and all one word instead of two has an entirely different meaning. It is used to describe anyone who spoke out against Hitler and his concept of a master race, and once you were labeled Lugenpresse you were walking dead, an "enemy of the people," about to disappear into a concentration camp no matter your race, religion, nationality, or affiliation. They didn't just kill Jews.
It is a word that signals the end of freedom of speech - the end of all freedoms. It signals their readiness to murder all who disagree with them.
Think I'm exaggerating? Think it's silly to imagine it could happen again, and that it certainly can't happen here?
Bet you also thought Trump was a buffoon who couldn't possibly be elected too didn't you? [Looking at the actions of his transition team, Trump did not believe it either.]
You have an opportunity to take a serious stance to uphold freedom before Lugenpresse has a chance to take hold; to perhaps even help stop it from taking root. Please don't squander it.
End of quote. Lugenpresse. When an experienced writer or speaker uses a foreign word rather than an accurate translation, it is because they want to bring with the word all the baggage and emotional power the word carried in the original language. The Donald may not be a Nazi, but he clearly has beliefs that the POTUS is some kind of Emperor. The Donald clearly indicated in his on-the-record discussion with the staff of the NY Times, that he cannot have a conflict of interest as President. Not that he will not, he says he cannot, that by law he has no restraints. I pray the US military has more personal honor and backbone. I pray the mainstream media will find it own backbone abandon the silly standard of faux news 'fair and balanced'.
snailgate
Re: When We Rise
Has anyone else been catching this so far? What I particularly liked about the first episode was that it didn't sugarcoat either the characters' personal struggles to accept themselves, nor the gender- and race-based divisions that permeated gay life throughout that time.
I recorded the second episode last night but haven't steeled myself to watching it yet, because it focuses on the early years of the AIDS epidemic and I know it's going to be hard to get through.
The Real-Life Gay Rights Activists of ABC's 'When We Rise'
I recorded the second episode last night but haven't steeled myself to watching it yet, because it focuses on the early years of the AIDS epidemic and I know it's going to be hard to get through.
The Real-Life Gay Rights Activists of ABC's 'When We Rise'
"The dildo of consequence rarely comes lubed." -- Eileen Rose
"Colonialism is not 'winning' - it's an unsustainable model. Like your hairline." -- Candace Linklater
"Colonialism is not 'winning' - it's an unsustainable model. Like your hairline." -- Candace Linklater
Re: When We Rise
I haven't watched yet, waiting to binge.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
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oldr_n_wsr
- Posts: 10838
- Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 1:59 am
Re: When We Rise
Watching TV was not part of my "binges". 
Re: When We Rise
I saw the first episode Scooter, and I agree. I think it also addressed the divisions in the movement that I recall also seeing detailed in the play The Normal Heart (which I saw when it first came out--and it was an eye opener for me to the gay rights movent(s) and the struggles within them (the movie was produced far too late to have that effect IMHO)). I was also pleasantly surprised to see Emily Skeggs in the show; I saw her on Broadway in fun Home and IMHO she stood put among a very talented cast. I hope this is not the last we see of her.
Last edited by Big RR on Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: When We Rise
Looks like once again, Jim Wrong has got it, well, wrong...Lugenpresse.
If you were to just say "lugen presse" it only translates to "lying press." No big deal huh? But the word "Lugenpresse" capitalized and all one word instead of two has an entirely different meaning. It is used to describe anyone who spoke out against Hitler and his concept of a master race
"Lugenpresse" wasn't an expression cooked up by Dr. Goebbels; it has a much longer and more complicated pedigree, it's a term that was used by both the left and the right :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lying_pressThe term Lügenpresse has been used intermittently since the 19th century in political polemics in Germany, by a wide range of groups and movements in a variety of debates and conflicts.[1] Isolated uses can be traced back as far as the Vormärz period.[2] The term gained traction in the March 1848 Revolution when Catholic circles employed it to attack the rising, hostile liberal press. In the Franco-German War (1870–71) and particularly World War I (1914–18) German intellectuals and journalists used the term to denounce what they believed was enemy war propaganda.
The Evangelischer Pressedienst (de) made its mission the fight against the "lying press" which it considered to be the "strongest weapon of the enemy".[3] After the war, German-speaking Jewish Marxists such as Karl Radek and Alexander Parvus vilified "the bourgeois lying press" as part of their class struggle rhetoric.[4][5] The Nazis adopted the term for their propaganda against the Jewish, communist, and later the foreign press. During the protests of 1968, left-wing students disparaged the liberal-conservative Axel Springer publishing house, notably its flagship daily Bild, as a "lying press".[6]
Re: When We Rise
That's interesting. Was it intended for a politics thread?
"The dildo of consequence rarely comes lubed." -- Eileen Rose
"Colonialism is not 'winning' - it's an unsustainable model. Like your hairline." -- Candace Linklater
"Colonialism is not 'winning' - it's an unsustainable model. Like your hairline." -- Candace Linklater
Re: When We Rise
It was a response to incorrect information that SG posted earlier in this thread (In the post right above your thread bump; I hadn't seen it before)...
If you don't like the digression, take it up with him...
If you don't like the digression, take it up with him...
Re: When We Rise
Sorry, I had forgotten he had posted that way back when.
"The dildo of consequence rarely comes lubed." -- Eileen Rose
"Colonialism is not 'winning' - it's an unsustainable model. Like your hairline." -- Candace Linklater
"Colonialism is not 'winning' - it's an unsustainable model. Like your hairline." -- Candace Linklater
Re: When We Rise
How many episodes is When We Rise going to be? I looked at it again last night on Hulu, but the info section doesn't indicate. Waiting to watch them all at once . . .
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: When We Rise
Four. It was supposed to run Monday to Thursday but they skipped the night that Lord Dampnut addressed Congress, so it finishes tonight.
"The dildo of consequence rarely comes lubed." -- Eileen Rose
"Colonialism is not 'winning' - it's an unsustainable model. Like your hairline." -- Candace Linklater
"Colonialism is not 'winning' - it's an unsustainable model. Like your hairline." -- Candace Linklater
Re: When We Rise
Weekend plans! For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: When We Rise
I think she is great in this role, as is Fiona Dourif who plays her girlfriend, and all of the young actors, none of whom I had ever heard of, who did a great job of grabbing hold of this material that was of a time that is probably foreign to their experience of the same issues today.Big RR wrote:I was also pleasantly surprised to see Emily Skeggs in the show; I saw her on Broadway in fun Home and IMHO she stood put among a very talented cast. I hope this is not the last we see of her.
Because the trailer link in the OP is now broken and I can't edit it:
"The dildo of consequence rarely comes lubed." -- Eileen Rose
"Colonialism is not 'winning' - it's an unsustainable model. Like your hairline." -- Candace Linklater
"Colonialism is not 'winning' - it's an unsustainable model. Like your hairline." -- Candace Linklater
Re: When We Rise
Really good series, episode 3 has me soaking my hanky. As usual when I watch videos, I'm compelled to pause now and then for research.
Scooter, what are your thoughts on the Hepatitis B vaccine program theory of the origin of the AIDS epidemic?
Scooter, what are your thoughts on the Hepatitis B vaccine program theory of the origin of the AIDS epidemic?
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: When We Rise
The vaccine origin theories (conspiracy or accident) have been pretty conclusively discredited, although the belief that HIV was government-engineered persists in some communities.
Part 3 was particularly difficult for me to get through because the way Ken was treated by Richard's family after Richard's death hit too close to home to my own situation.
Part 3 was particularly difficult for me to get through because the way Ken was treated by Richard's family after Richard's death hit too close to home to my own situation.
"The dildo of consequence rarely comes lubed." -- Eileen Rose
"Colonialism is not 'winning' - it's an unsustainable model. Like your hairline." -- Candace Linklater
"Colonialism is not 'winning' - it's an unsustainable model. Like your hairline." -- Candace Linklater
Re: When We Rise
Scooter--that was a tough part; I had a few friends that happened to as well, and I drafted a number of bedside wills to prevent the same sort of thing. Also, the rejection by the families even when they were dying continues to astound me; I recall one friend who suffered that same fate--at the end it was left to a few of us to make sure he cared for and was buried (and to us he was just a former coworker, but we couldn't turn our backs on him). It was amazed me how hateful and callous some people could be. The show dug up a lot of feelings I had left buried, and that was reason enough to watch it.