I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

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liberty
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I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

Post by liberty »

If someone writes a good story, it is a good yarn, and I don’t care who or what the author is. Whether the author is a man, woman, black or white, or homosexual, l could care less. I have enjoyed her books, and I don’t care what plumbing she has; I think she is an outstanding writer. I have more against her for being a radical liberal than a woman author. I don’t see the bias if someone likes how a man tells the same story over a woman; that is just how it is. We like what we like, and it is just that simple.


Jennifer Weiner - Wikipedia

Criticism of gender bias in the media[edit]
Weiner has been a vocal critic of what she sees as the male bias in the publishing industry and the media, alleging that books by male authors are better received than those written by women, that is, reviewed more often and more highly praised by critics. In 2010, she told The Huffington Post, "I think it's a very old and deep-seated double standard that holds that when a man writes about family and feelings, it's literature with a capital L, but when a woman considers the same topics, it's romance, or a beach book – in short, it's something unworthy of a serious critic's attention. ... I think it's irrefutable that when it comes to picking favorites – those lucky few writers who get the double reviews AND the fawning magazine profile AND the back-page essay space AND the op-ed ... the Times tends to pick white guys."[10] In a 2011 interview with The Wall Street Journal blog Speakeasy, she said, "There are gatekeepers who say chick lit doesn’t deserve attention but then they review Stephen King."[11] When Jonathan Franzen's novel Freedom was published in 2010 to critical acclaim and extensive media coverage (including a cover story in TIME[12]), Weiner criticized what she saw as the ensuing "overcoverage,"[13] igniting a debate over whether the media's adulation of Franzen was an example of entrenched sexism within the literary establishment.[14][15][16] Though Weiner received some backlash from other female writers for her criticisms,[17] a 2011 study by the organization VIDA bore out many of her claims,[18][19] and Franzen himself, in an interview with The Daily Telegraph, agreed with her: "To a considerable extent, I agree. When a male writer simply writes adequately about family, his book gets reviewed seriously, because: 'Wow, a man has actually taken some interest in the emotional texture of daily life', whereas with a woman it’s liable to be labelled chick-lit. There is a long-standing gender imbalance in what goes into the canon, however you want to define the canon.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

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C2F6B2B9-1197-41D8-9A06-92EF57A269A5.jpeg
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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

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Contra lib

I correspond with a person who is an authority on a certain Confederate prison camp not a million miles from Andersonville, GA. She prepared proposals to publishers on a book about the prison. She was warned that using her own name was likely to result in rejections. Didn't believe it.

To verify or debunk the advice, she divided her proposals into two sets - one with a man's name, one with her own. The four "men" received three requests for further submission and one "thank you but not interested".

The four "women" received one "thank you but not interested" and three non responses.

It may not be a valid sample - perhaps the female-named ones were sent to publishers less likely to be interested anyway . . . yeah . . . right . . .

It was published under the male name, by one of the three outfits that encouraged "him" and has been very well-received. She's got an excellent reputation in the field now as herself. She still finds it necessary to explain that yes, she IS John Doe and her real name is Dee John (not her real name).

The point, lib, is not that readers such as you and me do or don't like "books by women" as much as we like "books by men" - who cares? The point, lib, is that the INDUSTRY (all aspects of it) has preconceptions and prejudices that make it more difficult for women to gain an audience.
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BoSoxGal
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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

Post by BoSoxGal »

There are any number of historical examples of women writing under male pen names, George Eliot, George Sand and Currer, Acton and Ellis Bell being just a few who first leap to mind.

But as recently as the turn of THIS century, one of the bestselling authors of all time was advised by her publisher to use only her initials in publishing her book of children’s fantasy in order that it not be rejected by the male audience - J.K. Rowling.

Any fool who pretends that sexism isn’t still alive and well in the publishing and literary criticism industries is a fool indeed.
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liberty
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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

Post by liberty »

BoSoxGal wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:31 am
C2F6B2B9-1197-41D8-9A06-92EF57A269A5.jpeg
What don’t I have a right to my own opinion? Art is a subjective, one either likes a piece or not.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

liberty wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:21 pm
What don’t I have a right to my own opinion? Art is a subjective, one either likes a piece or not.
sigh . . . you wrote: "I don’t see the bias if someone likes how a man tells the same story over a woman"

What the dickens does that have to do with the objective failure of the publishing industry to treat people alike? Answer: bugger all

Why post an article and then say nothing at all to the point of the piece you quoted

Put another way - address the issue of the publishing industry not your reading habits
"I don't have dreams. Either in dreams or life."
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liberty
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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

Post by liberty »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:38 pm
liberty wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:21 pm
What don’t I have a right to my own opinion? Art is a subjective, one either likes a piece or not.
sigh . . . you wrote: "I don’t see the bias if someone likes how a man tells the same story over a woman"

What the dickens does that have to do with the objective failure of the publishing industry to treat people alike? Answer: bugger all

Why post an article and then say nothing at all to the point of the piece you quoted

Put another way - address the issue of the publishing industry not your reading habits
I don’t believe there are many males out there who care if a woman writes a novel. The kind of man that cares about that most likely doesn’t care about books anyway. He spends his time watching football, drinking beer, and scratching his ass. This year is 2021, not 1921.

A publishing company that misses out on a good read because of a bias will lose out to those competitors that are more open-minded.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

Post by Big RR »

A publishing company that misses out on a good read because of a bias will lose out to those competitors that are more open-minded.
TPerhaps, but you are assuming those publishers exist. There may be none.

liberty
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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

Post by liberty »

Big RR wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:35 am
A publishing company that misses out on a good read because of a bias will lose out to those competitors that are more open-minded.
TPerhaps, but you are assuming those publishers exist. There may be none.
How could that be is not publishing the most liberal business in the country with more liberals per square foot than any other industry? Am I wrong?
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

Post by Scooter »

You've been told often enough about what you think you know. (hint - whatever you think you know, the truth is always the opposite)
White privilege doesn't mean your life isn't hard. It means your skin colour isn't making it harder.

What goes on in a woman's uterus is none of your fucking business.

Equal rights for others does not mean less rights for you. It's not pie.

liberty
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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

Post by liberty »

Big RR wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:35 am
A publishing company that misses out on a good read because of a bias will lose out to those competitors that are more open-minded.
TPerhaps, but you are assuming those publishers exist. There may be none.

It is liberals that are biased against women if there is a bias.
Like I said, more liberals per square foot than any other industry:

Purifying Publishing | Frontpagemag
One field in which there’s at least a soupçon of ideological diversity is the book trade. Yes, staffers at the major publishing houses are overwhelmingly on the left. Ditto bookstore employees. Plus the people who give out the major book awards. Not to mention that the heftiest advances for political books go to Democrats. Since the turn of the century, the biggest nonfiction book deal, amounting to at least $65 million, was for Michelle Obama’s Becoming (2018) and for an as-yet-unpublished opus by Barack; second – raking in $15 million – was Bill Clinton’s My Life (2004); third – at $14 million – was Hillary’s Hard Choices (2014).
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

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A Trumper's idea of a book fair ....

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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

liberty wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:59 pm

I don’t believe there are many males out there who care if a woman writes a novel. The kind of man that cares about that most likely doesn’t care about books anyway. He spends his time watching football, drinking beer, and scratching his ass. This year is 2021, not 1921. Utterly irrelevant

A publishing company that misses out on a good read because of a bias will lose out to those competitors that are more open-minded. Pathetic arguments you make - Yoda. At least you tried to address the actual subject you introduced
Overall: 4 out of 10
Could do better
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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

Post by BoSoxGal »

If Trump was capable of writing a book, I’m sure his advance would be huge too - publishers know there is a built in audience of tens of millions and it is all business when it comes down to brass tacks.

Publishers and literary critics are sexist because our society is still so sexist - women’s work and women’s words are still less valued by far too many people, many of them also women. The patriarchy is still very much entrenched.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

Post by Bicycle Bill »

BoSoxGal wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:53 am
Publishers and literary critics are sexist because our society is still so sexist - women’s work and women’s words are still less valued by far too many people, many of them also women. The patriarchy is still very much entrenched.
Which it seems you will embrace when it suits your own purposes as well.  Look to the right at your avatar ... a little Muppet-like character whose backstory is that she is the cute, lovable little sister of the male Red Sox mascot, Wally — which means her identity is overshadowed by that of her older, stronger, athletic, more-important brother.  HE'S the stud, the hero, the doer — she's the eye-candy.  You'd think that they could have at least made her a quasi-equal by saying she was his girlfriend rather than little sister.

But while it may just be lip service, at least they have included a female mascot.  In Wisconsin, back in the 1980s, aside from the real-life character "Bernie Brewer" (an actual human who used to hang out in a chalet mounted on an oversized beer-barrel at the old Milwaukee County Stadium, and would go sliding down a ramp into an equally-oversized beer stein positioned under the barrel's tap following a home run or win)

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we used to have "Bonnie Brewer" to go along with him.

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Bonnie was a young female chosen each season (there may have been more than one per season and they took turns — I don't know) to appear, dressed in lederhosen-like short-shorts, to 'assist' the grounds crew when they would drag the field during the game by sweeping off the bases and 'flirting' with the 3rd base coach or umpire (if he was willing to play along).  One thing led to another, however — companies would pay to sponsor events like the Famous Sausage Races during the inter-inning breaks — and her position was eliminated, along with that of Bernie.

While Bernie reappeared later due to popular demand, he returned as a costumed caricature — headpiece, buffed-up bodysuit — doing pretty much the same thing, i.e., cheering on the team from "Bernie's Dugout" and sliding down to a lower level after home runs (the beer barrel and mug are long gone after a flap about how this supposedly promoted excessive drinking).  Bonnie is still nothing more than a distant memory.  Instead, we've got running weenies.
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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

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the beer barrel and mug are long gone after a flap about how this supposedly promoted excessive drinking
I never heard that; funny, they're still called the Brewers--maybe we're supposed to think of brewing tea?

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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Big RR wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:30 pm
the beer barrel and mug are long gone after a flap about how this supposedly promoted excessive drinking
I never heard that; funny, they're still called the Brewers--maybe we're supposed to think of brewing tea?
Bernie Brewer.  What’s not to love?  The mascot created a buzz by sliding from a beer-barreled chalet into a mug of beer.  That was the 1970s, though.  And in old Milwaukee County Stadium. Miller Park, which opened in 2001, wasn’t Milwaukee County Stadium (not even a little bit) and Bernie’s embracing of all things suds wasn’t exactly the most kid-friendly piece of the Brewers’ marketing puzzle.  But Bernie’s history still was something to cherish, beer and all.

“(Bernie) was one of the many tangible and intangible things that we culled from the history of the franchise,” Brian Trubey, architect at HKS who designed Miller Park, tells SI.com about the process of designing a new Milwaukee stadium.  “Obviously the slide and chalet is a physical thing, but we wanted to reinterpret it in a bigger way.  And you can see a lot about that from the way it is now.”

Trubey says the desire was to build Bernie into something even bigger, bolder and more kid-friendly than ever, all while focusing on the baseball aspect of Bernie.  Cue the “dugout” to replace the chalet, which is now restored and housed inside Milwaukee’s Lakefront Brewery.  With his very own dugout, Bernie can emerge and ride a twisty yellow slide — a key color in the Milwaukee aesthetic — toward a giant home place after each Brewers home run and victory, all in conjunction with a small fireworks display.  Atop the dugout is a sign with Bob Uecker’s famed “Get up, get up, get outta here, GONE!!” home run call.

Placing Bernie in leftfield was a product of the environment.  “That is where we were going to have the most sun the longest and be the most visible,” says Trubey.  “We had the most depth there.”  The dugout perches high above the left field seats, while jutting out toward center field from the grandstands that make up the left field foul territory.  About 20 steps lead up to Bernie’s dugout, while the slide twirls out into open space.  Trubey calls it one of the top attractions in Miller Park, and fans clamoring for a ride down the slide have agreed   Everyone loves Bernie, right?
https://www.si.com/mlb/2014/04/25/ballp ... 3896694jpg
I predict that won't be for much longer.  So long as they played in Miller Park — which was named after the brewery paid something like $40 million to hang their name on it for a 20-year period starting back in 2001 — there was still the connection to the brewing industry.

But now, since that naming-rights deal expired and American Family Insurance took over (coughing up roughly $30 million over the next fifteen years, unless someone else with more money comes forward and buys out their deal), I suspect that before the end of this decade we'll see the 'Brewers' name go bye-bye in favor of some non-threatening name like the "Milwaukee Lakesiders", reflecting their location along Lake Michigan...   unless someone with enough balls buys the team, says, "This is how it's gonna be," and tells everybody else to just go fuck themselves — and I ain't going to hold my breath waiting for THAT to happen.

But at least it's GOT a name.  Pity the poor restaurant inside the facility....

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(FYI — It was originally a TGIFriday's, located on the first level above and to the left of the Brewers' bullpen in left field)
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ex-khobar Andy
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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

That actually is its name.

https://rtbnl.com/

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Re: I like her stories, but she is full of crap.

Post by Jarlaxle »

Bicycle Bill wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:43 am
A Trumper's idea of a book fair ....

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John Ross for president

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