1968 Chicago Democratic Convention 'police riots' The baton was used by the Chicago cops with great effectiveness and few injuries that required professional medical treatment
I think you and I must be recalling different riots; I recall many getting treatment at aid stations set up, and then refusing to go to the hospital because they were concerned about being arrested or mistreated further. Even then, hundreds went to the hospital. That doesn't seems like few injuries.
Not to mention how the newsreels showed people with blood running down their faces from blows to the head by nightsticks. That sor of injury is serious, but many refused or avoided treatment.
Yes, there are other ways nightsticks can be used, but they were used as clubs in Chicago in 1968.
Did they later pass out from head trauma? Most of the aid stations were set up by the demonstrators. It was a honor to get bandaged or your eyes /face washed out there. It is easy to break a collar bone with a night stick. I was there. I heard of NO broken bones. There were much worse injuries during the voter registration drive in the month before the convention. There were 10 of us that took a van in from East Lansing Michigan to work the registration drive and convention as anti-draft military veterans.
How do we explain those? Those are cases of opportunity - crimes of convenience. You know what those rapists do when there are no women available? They rape other men. At least the ones that know they can overpower. I'm not sure how much education is going to help with people that twisted.
I'm no psychologist, BSG, nor do I pretend to be one, but I don't think one needs to be a shrink to realize that living with the attitude that "everyone is out to fuck me over in one form or another" is a pretty miserable way to exist. -"BB"-
I'm probably the most cynical person on this site (well, I thought I was), and even I'm not that cynical.
Though I admit her statement makes me glad I'm not driving wreckers anymore.
The other night I met a cop; when she showed up, my first thought was God, she’s somebody’s baby; she was only about 5 foot 2 or 4 at the most. Without her gun, I think she’s been helpless. Perhaps you could handle the average size guy, but someone like Craig Price 250 pounds Could take her gun away from her and do whatever he wanted with her, which might be a little too graphic for a form like this. She was a sweet little thing, but that won’t save her ass when she is facing some guy who weighs 250 pounds and has a feeling of superiority, having intimidated people all his life due to his size. Perhaps a woman shouldn’t be a cop, just a thought. She must be brave, but that won’t save her either.
Aim at center mass and fire until the threat is neutralized. A couple of 9mm or .40 JHP to the chest is very persuasive.
Funny how when you’re expression concern about women working in jobs where they have to physically grapple with larger people, sometimes very combative, on a daily basis, you apparently give not a single thought to the women in the nursing profession who do this all day long, every day, for decades across a career. Does their physical well being and safety count for so little?
Most of the cops killed in the line of duty are men; apparently being a little taller and heavier doesn’t guarantee physical safety.
It's simply a matter of numbers: more than four cops in five are men. (17% women, per a DoJ report from 2017-I couldn't find anything more recent from an official source.)
Considered Kim Potter a female police officer who had an outstanding record and never had any complaints against her. A suspect resisted arrest, and her trainee got himself into trouble, and she attempted to rescue him and got her gun confused with her Taser and shot the suspect with her gun. Because of that mistake, Kim goes to prison for years; her life ruined, her twenty years of police work down the drain, her pension is gone. If she had been big enough, she could have pulled the guy out of the car. I bet Kim wishes she’d never gone into police work.
When cops go to prison for mistakes, can you blame cops for playing it safe and letting a suspect go rather than being another Kim Potter? Does anyone wonder why crime is out of control in big liberal cities?
It appears that most police shootings are the outgrowth of a suspect resisting arrest. Perhaps resisting arrest should be a felony equivalent to manslaughter because it could result in someone dying.
Kim Potter should have washed her mouth out with her pistol the moment she realized what she'd done. Anything short of public crucifixion is not enough for that incompetent twerp.
BB, Yes, bring back the nightstick, or specifically the PR24 baton, which is the modern version. It is about the same length as the nightstick my uncle carried as a street cop in the 1940's but made of tough plastic with a small 90 degree handle near one end. Go review the reports and pictures from the 1968 Chicago Democratic Convention 'police riots' The baton was used by the Chicago cops with great effectiveness and few injuries that required professional medical treatment. The PR24 has utility beyond the old nightstick for controlling and immobilizing a perp. BUT IT NEEDS TRAINING if it's to be anything but a club. As the link in BSG's post above points out, there is a basic failure in training for the Taser and the Pistol. The Taser does not work the way the public generally expects, except in very limited circumstances. The pistols need regularly training beyond once-a-year-qualificaiton but that burns up expensive ammunition, Orthodox cop doctrine now advices lethal force be used against any perp with a knife or any other weapon, if the perp is less than 7 yards away. Circumstances that call for non-lethal force are much more common than a requirement to shoot. In most jurisdictions the cop has the choice of strong words, the Taser, lethal force. This is not much of a selection when the possibility of violence is escalating.
snailgate
Cops prefer Tasers to nightsticks, now...they're MUCH better torture devices! No bruises, no blood in the car, no risk of straining a shoulder, won't break an expensive flashlight-it's the best thing since the drive-through donut shop!
Considered Kim Potter a female police officer who had an outstanding record and never had any complaints against her. A suspect resisted arrest, and her trainee got himself into trouble, and she attempted to rescue him and got her gun confused with her Taser and shot the suspect with her gun. Because of that mistake, Kim goes to prison for years; her life ruined, her twenty years of police work down the drain, her pension is gone. If she had been big enough, she could have pulled the guy out of the car. I bet Kim wishes she’d never gone into police work.
When cops go to prison for mistakes, can you blame cops for playing it safe and letting a suspect go rather than being another Kim Potter? Does anyone wonder why crime is out of control in big liberal cities?
It appears that most police shootings are the outgrowth of a suspect resisting arrest. Perhaps resisting arrest should be a felony equivalent to manslaughter because it could result in someone dying.
Kim Potter should have washed her mouth out with her pistol the moment she realized what she'd done. Anything short of public crucifixion is not enough for that incompetent twerp.
Her actions were obviously tragic, but after reading this article I had a different perspective- just as I did on the subject of beloved kids left to die in hot cars by their parents after reading established neuroscience that explains how muscle memory works and how it can be disrupted by a variety of factors and yes people who really adore their children can forget to drop them at daycare and find them dead in the backseat at the end of a workday. Imagine living with that!
Potter apparently had an excellent record on the force for almost an entire career until the day she deployed her firearm while yelling taser taser taser. I believe her remorse is genuine. I believe the judge should have given her a longer sentence, too.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
Her actions were obviously tragic, but after reading this article I had a different perspective- just as I did on the subject of beloved kids left to die in hot cars by their parents after reading established neuroscience that explains how muscle memory works and how it can be disrupted by a variety of factors and yes people who really adore their children can forget to drop them at daycare and find them dead in the backseat at the end of a workday. Imagine living with that!
Potter apparently had an excellent record on the force for almost an entire career until the day she deployed her firearm while yelling taser taser taser. I believe her remorse is genuine. I believe the judge should have given her a longer sentence, too.
Anything less than life without parole, a year in maximum security's general population, or a public crucifixion is not enough. Be it malice or incompetence, I flat don't give a shit. She should have blown her own brains out and saved everyone a lot of hassle.
Deride? No...I actually believe you may be in need of professional help. Cynical as I am, I really don't want you dead.
I simply want Kim Potter gone...be it locked up forever, gargling a 9mm, or nailed to a cross, I don't care that much, though crucifixion of bad cops would be a hell of an object lesson. Best possible outcome in that case would have been suicide, ideally just AFTER being fired.
But you are being entirely illogical, because the record establishes beyond any reasonable doubt that Potter isn’t a bad cop. She was a decorated cop without a single complaint until she made a terrible horrible tragic mistake, one which neuroscience research establishes is entirely possible without any nefarious intent - without any intent at all. Beyond the clearly established neuroscience that can explain this type of incident in any good cop, she’s a woman in midlife and they do, in fact, suffer changes to brain function which might have contributed to the incident.
Your insistence that she should eat her service weapon or be publicly crucified for an unintentional manslaughter rather reveals you to be the one exhibiting likely mental illness or personality disorder in this conversation, not me.
Further, at 51 years old and having lived in this society and worked in the criminal justice system and being someone who reads the news daily, it is an entirely rational response for me to exist in the world with the expectation that any man I meet is best considered a potential predator until proven otherwise. That the men here are offended by that bothers me not in the least - I’m relying on facts, not hurt male egos of strangers to guide my perspective. I should have clarified my comments to indicate that I’m more inclined to trust other women in any setting. But I also don’t believe that it is indicative of mental defect to have a healthy skepticism about anyone new I encounter in life because the evidence of my own eyes and FBI crime stats and lived experience is that I would be a fool to happy go lucky put my trust willy nilly in every stranger I meet. Obviously people who come with an introduction from someone I already trust will get much more benefit of doubt. Context is everything.
In any case I certainly don’t need the most twisted angry men on this board to be offering me sympathy or mental health advice. You and BB need mental health treatment far more than I do at present. And I’m quite sure the comments aren’t meant with even a little sincerity, it’s just one more way that I am being attacked - especially by BB, who has a hard on for me and cannot go even one week without personal attacks on me despite me not reading his posts (I do wish others would stop quoting his attacks on me, I’d rather just forget he exists altogether.)
So please, do fuck off. And have a nice fucking day while doing so.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
I am alot more understanding (empathetic) toward BSG, when I consider the time my adult daughter and my wife independently explained to me why I so seldom would see a female (with or without dog) at dusk in a local city park when I was walking my dog (mostly off leash) there at that time nearly every day. The park was mostly wooded with a little creek running through it. The entrance was inconspicuous with about 50 yards on a narrow roadway through the trees to the parking lot.
“‘Why do men feel threatened by women?’ I asked a male friend of mine.
“‘They are afraid women will laugh at them’, he said, ‘undercut their world view.’
“Then I asked some women students, ‘Why do women feel threatened by men?’ “‘They are afraid of being killed,’ they said.” ~ Margaret Atwood
But you are being entirely illogical, because the record establishes beyond any reasonable doubt that Potter isn’t a bad cop. She was a decorated cop without a single complaint until she made a terrible horrible tragic mistake, one which neuroscience research establishes is entirely possible without any nefarious intent - without any intent at all. Beyond the clearly established neuroscience that can explain this type of incident in any good cop, she’s a woman in midlife and they do, in fact, suffer changes to brain function which might have contributed to the incident.
Your insistence that she should eat her service weapon or be publicly crucified for an unintentional manslaughter rather reveals you to be the one exhibiting likely mental illness or personality disorder in this conversation, not me.
Further, at 51 years old and having lived in this society and worked in the criminal justice system and being someone who reads the news daily, it is an entirely rational response for me to exist in the world with the expectation that any man I meet is best considered a potential predator until proven otherwise. That the men here are offended by that bothers me not in the least - I’m relying on facts, not hurt male egos of strangers to guide my perspective. I should have clarified my comments to indicate that I’m more inclined to trust other women in any setting. But I also don’t believe that it is indicative of mental defect to have a healthy skepticism about anyone new I encounter in life because the evidence of my own eyes and FBI crime stats and lived experience is that I would be a fool to happy go lucky put my trust willy nilly in every stranger I meet. Obviously people who come with an introduction from someone I already trust will get much more benefit of doubt. Context is everything.
In any case I certainly don’t need the most twisted angry men on this board to be offering me sympathy or mental health advice. You and BB need mental health treatment far more than I do at present. And I’m quite sure the comments aren’t meant with even a little sincerity, it’s just one more way that I am being attacked - especially by BB, who has a hard on for me and cannot go even one week without personal attacks on me despite me not reading his posts (I do wish others would stop quoting his attacks on me, I’d rather just forget he exists altogether.)
So please, do fuck off. And have a nice fucking day while doing so.
BB is a prick and has been forever. Not the worst here, but close.
I have, as I recall (I admit, I'm not digging through twelve years of posts), never personally attacked you. I have never been anything but sincere (sarcastic, yes-I admit it's almost my default reaction in general) in posts to you.
But you are being entirely illogical, because the record establishes beyond any reasonable doubt that Potter isn’t a bad cop. She was a decorated cop without a single complaint until she made a terrible horrible tragic mistake, one which neuroscience research establishes is entirely possible without any nefarious intent - without any intent at all. Beyond the clearly established neuroscience that can explain this type of incident in any good cop, she’s a woman in midlife and they do, in fact, suffer changes to brain function which might have contributed to the incident.
Your insistence that she should eat her service weapon or be publicly crucified for an unintentional manslaughter rather reveals you to be the one exhibiting likely mental illness or personality disorder in this conversation, not me.
Further, at 51 years old and having lived in this society and worked in the criminal justice system and being someone who reads the news daily, it is an entirely rational response for me to exist in the world with the expectation that any man I meet is best considered a potential predator until proven otherwise. That the men here are offended by that bothers me not in the least - I’m relying on facts, not hurt male egos of strangers to guide my perspective. I should have clarified my comments to indicate that I’m more inclined to trust other women in any setting. But I also don’t believe that it is indicative of mental defect to have a healthy skepticism about anyone new I encounter in life because the evidence of my own eyes and FBI crime stats and lived experience is that I would be a fool to happy go lucky put my trust willy nilly in every stranger I meet. Obviously people who come with an introduction from someone I already trust will get much more benefit of doubt. Context is everything.
In any case I certainly don’t need the most twisted angry men on this board to be offering me sympathy or mental health advice. You and BB need mental health treatment far more than I do at present. And I’m quite sure the comments aren’t meant with even a little sincerity, it’s just one more way that I am being attacked - especially by BB, who has a hard on for me and cannot go even one week without personal attacks on me despite me not reading his posts (I do wish others would stop quoting his attacks on me, I’d rather just forget he exists altogether.)
So please, do fuck off. And have a nice fucking day while doing so.
BB is a prick and has been forever. Not the worst here, but close.
I have, as I recall (I admit, I'm not digging through twelve years of posts), never personally attacked you. I have never been anything but sincere (sarcastic, yes-I admit it's almost my default reaction in general) in posts to you.
In fairness, I did say *especially by BB*, and I apologize for lumping you in with him, that was inappropriate. You have generally been nice to me in our exchanges and I should bear that in mind when your obnoxiously asserted political views sometimes make me want to punch you.
Just to clarify: I am not suicidal. A few months ago I was ideating quite a bit, but I have just completed a course of trans cranial magnetic stimulation and also cured my decade-long chronic insomnia by going on HRT - with the result that my mental health is better than it has been in years.
My distrust of most men and people I don’t know in general is a hard won misanthropy that comes of lived experience. It persists as a rational position even when I am in very good mental health. I most definitely wasn't always this way - if you’d known me 30 years ago you’d have known a very different person. We all change with age but I think those of us who spend decades mired in the absolute worst things that human beings are capable of doing to one another probably change even more. I don’t know any folks who work in child welfare or the criminal justice system who aren’t very jaded on some level, even if they put a brave/bright face on things. And bear in mind that on this board is one of the few places in life that I freely speak my mind without much filter; in real life I put a bright face on things because I’m not the sort to tell other people the horrors I have seen so they can have their illusions shattered, too. If I could have mine back and have lived all my life without knowing the things I learned the last two decades, I’d definitely want that. (I think. Or is the unexamined life not worth living?)
Anyway thanks for your concern. I’ll continue to hang around stinking up the place for some time to come, I promise! Have a nice fucking day today.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
In fairness, I did say *especially by BB*, and I apologize for lumping you in with him, that was inappropriate. You have generally been nice to me in our exchanges and I should bear that in mind when your obnoxiously asserted political views sometimes make me want to punch you.
Just to clarify: I am not suicidal. A few months ago I was ideating quite a bit, but I have just completed a course of trans cranial magnetic stimulation and also cured my decade-long chronic insomnia by going on HRT - with the result that my mental health is better than it has been in years.
What is HRT? (I searched, but I'm reasonably sure you're not on the Hostage Rescue Team.)
My distrust of most men and people I don’t know in general is a hard won misanthropy that comes of lived experience.
Sounds like my distrust of everyone. Seriously: I do not actually trust ANYONE. A large amount of what I freely admit is a complete distrust of cops is getting screwed because I trusted one to do the right thing. I only found out a couple years ago that a Florida state trooper raped my wife. (Long before we met-it's the main reason she and her father moved from FL to New England.)
It persists as a rational position even when I am in very good mental health. I most definitely wasn't always this way - if you’d known me 30 years ago you’d have known a very different person. We all change with age but I think those of us who spend decades mired in the absolute worst things that human beings are capable of doing to one another probably change even more. I don’t know any folks who work in child welfare or the criminal justice system who aren’t very jaded on some level, even if they put a brave/bright face on things. And bear in mind that on this board is one of the few places in life that I freely speak my mind without much filter; in real life I put a bright face on things because I’m not the sort to tell other people the horrors I have seen so they can have their illusions shattered, too. If I could have mine back and have lived all my life without knowing the things I learned the last two decades, I’d definitely want that. (I think. Or is the unexamined life not worth living?)
Anyway thanks for your concern. I’ll continue to hang around stinking up the place for some time to come, I promise! Have a nice fucking day today.
Stay healthy.
And bolt the storm door, we have more crappy weather coming.
