Movie Receommendation

[Big RR]

I finally got around to watching Tar last night and it is a movie I highly recommend. It is flawlessly acted gives the audience credit for being smart enough to understand the issues without being spoon fed. It also provides a soundtrack that includes some glorious music. It's well worth the watch.

[Sue U]

I saw it and Cate Blanchett was terrific as a kind of Marin Alsop/JoAnn Falletta/James Levine mash-up, spiked with an overdose of hubris and narcissism. There are some fun and gossipy allusions to real people/events and re-tellings of classical music oral history that you don't often hear outside of music schools and orchestra rehearsals. (For all of its references to Leonard Bernstein, however, they didn't really tell any stories about him.) The featured music was of course magnificent (who doesn't like Mahler? And my orchestra had just done the Elgar Cello Concerto at our winter concert), and the movie score itself was very good. It was great that they used real musicians to play real musicians, even in prominent "acting" roles. As far as the story, it's well-constructed and I liked where it went with the ending.

[Big RR]

I also liked it because I can think of many conductors I have worked with who were just as arrogant and narcissistic. I've worked with some very good ones as well (including some fairly well-known ones), but music seems to attract more than its share of jerks.

And in some ways I am glad it didn't become gossipy about real life persons; that wasn't the point of it.

[BoSoxGal]

I also liked it because I can think of many conductors I have worked with who were just as arrogant and narcissistic. I've worked with some very good ones as well (including some fairly well-known ones), but music seems to attract more than its share of jerks.

And in some ways I am glad it didn't become gossipy about real life persons; that wasn't the point of it.

Ok you have to concede that this is pretty hilarious coming from a lawyer.

However having spent decades in choirs I also concede your point.

[Sue U]

I also liked it because I can think of many conductors I have worked with who were just as arrogant and narcissistic. I've worked with some very good ones as well (including some fairly well-known ones), but music seems to attract more than its share of jerks.

Really? Your experience is way different than mine. One of the few things that I actually thought rang as untrue was the amped-up attitude Tar was exhibiting toward the orchestra/individual musicians, which I had never experienced from a conductor; they are certainly not all warm-and-fuzzy, but none have been jerks. Maybe I have just been lucky, and maybe it's because I took a few decades off. But even (and maybe especially) in the roughest going in rehearsals, my experience has been that conductors have tried to break the tension with jokes or anecdotes, and often there is significant banter between the orchestra members and the conductor. And I have seen the same as a student watching the Philadelphia Orchestra, Boston Symphony and National Symphony rehearse.

And in some ways I am glad it didn't become gossipy about real life persons; that wasn't the point of it.

I agree. But there are so many really good and wild stories about figures in the classical music world down through history, there should be more movies about them.

[Big RR]

Sue--maybe you have been lucky; I've been in choirs where the conductor threw scores at the group, screamed and stomped, and generally acted like a big baby. I've also been in choirs where the conductors were jovial and worked with us to get the best out of us--our present conductor is like that. I've also had conductors who are a little of both. But I do think the arts tend to attract more than their share of prima donnas (hell, that's where the term came from). One thing that still sticks in my craw is when I performed in a production of Amahl and the night Visitors (as Melchior) and I had the director go into a tirade with me at the dress rehearsal (over something trivial--I don't even recall what, but the pressure was getting to her); it took everything I had not to just walk out, but the cast and crew had worked so hard that I didn't (and I held my tongue until after the performances (when I had it out with her). She was an excellent musician and knew stagecraft well, but she couldn't take the pressure before a performance.

BSG--can't argue with that; there are plenty of jerks in law, and medicine for that matter.

[Sue U]

There are some fun and gossipy allusions to real people/events and re-tellings of classical music oral history that you don't often hear outside of music schools and orchestra rehearsals. (For all of its references to Leonard Bernstein, however, they didn't really tell any stories about him.)

And in some ways I am glad it didn't become gossipy about real life persons; that wasn't the point of it.

I agree. But there are so many really good and wild stories about figures in the classical music world down through history, there should be more movies about them.

Well, it looks like I may be getting my wish:



Bernstein was certainly a towering figure in the 20th Century music world; he was a complex person in both his public and private life, and there are more than a few good stories that might be told about him in the course of a biopic. Interesting that the framing of the movie appears to be the relationship between Lenny and his wife, which is an unorthodox love story itself, to say the least.

[BoSoxGal]

I’m looking forward to the film, but have some bad feelings about the prosthetic nose controversy. And honestly I would rather have seen Jake Gyllenhaal play Bernstein.

[Sue U]

Eh, nose shmoze, whatever Bradley Cooper thinks is gonna make him look more like Bernstein is okay with me. We all grew up watching him on TV and seeing him in magazines and newspapers so I can understand why Cooper wants to make himself look as much as possible like the very familiar original. I'll be interested to hear if he got the sound of Bernstein's very distinctive voice/speech down, and where the story goes. (Disclosure: I can only hear Peter and the Wolf in his voice, no matter who else is doing it, due to the recording I had as a child, which is forever seared into my brain.)

Bernstein knew and befriended virtually every major figure in classical music in the 20th Century, being mentored by some and in turn mentoring others. His own contribution to the musical canon -- and to American culture more broadly -- cannot be overstated (West Side Story, Candide, Mass, Age of Anxiety, Serenade; Young People's Concerts; reviving Mahler's legacy, just to name a few). His social activism was legendary, and not infrequently the target of the snarkmeisters and critics of the day. His not-very-well-concealed-yet-not-quite-open homosexuality (or maybe pansexuality?) was all kinds of problematic for such a public figure of that time. He was such a pivotal force in so many ways that I can't imagine how even half of his significance could be jammed into one feature length motion picture. No matter how much of his story may be told in Maestro, I have no doubt I will be disappointed by what was left out.

[BoSoxGal]

We have that in common - Bernstein’s Peter and the Wolf was in the soundtrack of my early childhood and played very frequently. That early music lays deep grooves in the neural network.

I’m going to listen this morning and call up some of those early childhood vibes.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Peter in the Wolf?

I thought movies like that were banned in America?

[MajGenl.Meade]

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-66526446

Bernstein's family said they were "perfectly fine" with Cooper using make-up to "amplify" his appearance. There has also been criticism that a Jewish actor was not cast to play the West Side Story composer.

"It breaks our hearts to see any misrepresentations or misunderstandings of [Cooper's] efforts," wrote Jamie, Alexander and Nina Bernstein in a statement posted online . . .It happens to be true that Leonard Bernstein had a nice, big nose. Bradley chose to use make-up to amplify his resemblance, and we're perfectly fine with that. We're also certain that our dad would have been fine with it as well."

And from the loony left (same article):

When the first images of Cooper were seen last year, the Hollywood Reporter's film critic Daniel Feinberg said Cooper's appearance could be "problematic", suggesting the movie featured "ethnic cosplay".

Writing on Instagram, English actress Tracy-Ann Oberman, who is Jewish, compared Cooper apparently using a prosthetic nose to the use of blackface make-up. "If Bradley Cooper can't do it through the power [of] acting alone then don't cast him - get a Jewish actor," she wrote.

And just to show that you can't win for losing . . .

Another film scheduled for release in the coming months, Golda, has attracted similar controversy. Dame Helen Mirren will play former Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir in Guy Nattiv's film, which will be released in US cinemas at the end of this month.

Last year, actress Maureen Lipman told the Jewish Chronicle she "disagreed" with Dame Helen's casting "because the Jewishness of the character is so integral".

So I guess it doesn't matter if Helen Mirren can do it through the power of acting.

[BoSoxGal]

at prior post.

[Sue U]

And from the loony left (same article):

When the first images of Cooper were seen last year, the Hollywood Reporter's film critic Daniel Feinberg said Cooper's appearance could be "problematic", suggesting the movie featured "ethnic cosplay".

Writing on Instagram, English actress Tracy-Ann Oberman, who is Jewish, compared Cooper apparently using a prosthetic nose to the use of blackface make-up. "If Bradley Cooper can't do it through the power [of] acting alone then don't cast him - get a Jewish actor," she wrote.

How exactly is the Hollywood Reporter and/or its film critic "the loony left"? Or "English actress Tracy-Ann Oberman"? And how is this a left/right political issue?

I'm pretty sure I'm what you would characterize as "loony left," also rather Jewy, and I don't give a shit about Bradley Cooper's prosthetic nose or whether Bernstein or Golda Meir or J. Robert Oppenheimer are portrayed by non-Jewish actors. (Also, for the record, Helen Mirren can do no wrong.) FFS, James Caan (Jewish) played Sonny Corleone and won NYC's Italian Actor of the Year award -- twice -- and I don't recall anyone bitching about that.

[MajGenl.Meade]

"ethnic cosplay" Complete giveaway, that.

Maybe Tracy-Ann Oberman has other problems. She seems to suggest that if Cooper couldn't play the part without the nose, they should have got a Jew with a big schnoz.

OK, you've got a point. I know I should reserve finger-wagging for those loony rightists who don't understand how a black man can play Hamlet.

[TPFKA@W]

Jewish cousin (inlaw) in the biz says:

My thoughts on the nose
Who the fuck really cares about this non issue

The term Jewface was coined by Sarah Silverman because she didn’t get cast as Joan Rivers and Kathryn Hahn did. The term is incredibly offensive to me and this whole manufactured controversy was started by an unknown British actress trying to draw attention to herself.
I’ve read posts that actually said that Alexander’s,Nina’s,and Jamie’s approval didn’t matter.
This is the trouble with the internet- within hours, some stupid comment became a worldwide “controversy “. The world has to chime in about everything- and the number of posts that I read about having to get nose jobs at 16 to make themselves feel better is positively ludicrous.
Once we start down the road of who can play what roles based on religion and sexuality we are going back to the era when actors were “too New York” or “too light” to be believable as anything but Jews or gay men.
The idea that there is a lack of opportunity for Jewish actors today is just not true.

[Scooter]

The irony is that Cooper's natural nose makes him look much closer to a younger Bernstein than the beak he chose to plaster on.

[Sue U]

Jewish cousin (inlaw) in the biz says:

My thoughts on the nose
Who the fuck really cares about this non issue

The term Jewface was coined by Sarah Silverman because she didn’t get cast as Joan Rivers and Kathryn Hahn did. The term is incredibly offensive to me and this whole manufactured controversy was started by an unknown British actress trying to draw attention to herself.
I’ve read posts that actually said that Alexander’s,Nina’s,and Jamie’s approval didn’t matter.
This is the trouble with the internet- within hours, some stupid comment became a worldwide “controversy “. The world has to chime in about everything- and the number of posts that I read about having to get nose jobs at 16 to make themselves feel better is positively ludicrous.
Once we start down the road of who can play what roles based on religion and sexuality we are going back to the era when actors were “too New York” or “too light” to be believable as anything but Jews or gay men.
The idea that there is a lack of opportunity for Jewish actors today is just not true.

I don't disagree.

[Big RR]

I agree; I support color (or ethnicity or religious or sexual orientation or whatever) blind casting. As long as the story is not changed, I really don't care if Othello is portrayed by a white or black actor (with or without man tan) or Hamlet is played by a black man, and I really don't care if Cooper plays Bernstein. There might be a problem if it is played for laughs (like an Al Jolson minstrel show in black face) and there may be times when realistic racial casting is necessary(although none come immediately to mind), but for the most part we would be better off to just cast the best actor for the part (by whatever criterion is needed). FWIW, ditto for gender; again, so long as the story is not changed it should be fine. I recall Linda Hunt playing a man in Year of Living Dangerously and it didn't bother me at all, even though it was both racially and gender not "matched" (indee, I think she won an academy award for it.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I recall Linda Hunt playing a man in Year of Living Dangerously and it didn't bother me at all, even though it was both racially and gender not "matched" (indeed, I think she won an academy award for it.

Indeed she did, but shouldn't the part have been played by a real dwarf (of either gender)? Linda might not fly too well today. buddy!

As to "although none come immediately to mind", how about Shaft, or Shaka Zulu or Tarzan? The Last Emperor. 42. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. The Bruce Lee Story. Doctor Zhivago? They Died With Their Boots On?

Could a non-white-looking-person seriously play Custer?

Perhaps you were really referring to non-historical / fiction characters that were not necessarily intended to be non-white?* I would be rather pleased to watch an updated "African Queen" played by two black American actors set back in the day. It would bring an interesting "back to Africa" dynamic. How would a couple of 20th century black folks react to it and it to them?


*to avoid confusion, I mean to say that non-black people should not play the black characters in works such as Barber Shop or Do the Right Thing or Django Unchained even though those are fiction. And Spike Lee surely did the right thing in casting Danny Aiello as an Italian American? I suppose we could have a black Hawkeye in the Last of the Mohicans but there may be a fuss if the "Indians" were from Korea . . .