Plan B Forum

I am/was a pilot, I love general aviation, I think acrobatic stunts are thrilling, and they really test the pilot's mettle. However, something about this vid doesn't sit well with me. I mean, would a NASCAR or Formula 1 driver load his kid into a car for a test/trial run?

Yes, it's great that dad is such an accomplished pilot but I can't help but feel this child is too young to be exposed to unnecessary danger. If an accident happened the tragedy would haunt the surviving families for life. It's just not right.

"It’s all fun and games until someone gets hurt."

And no helmet! Bloody climbers!

RayThom wrote:I am/was a pilot, I love general aviation, I think acrobatic stunts are thrilling, and they really test the pilot's mettle. However, something about this vid doesn't sit well with me. I mean, would a NASCAR or Formula 1 driver load his kid into a car for a test/trial run?

Yes, it's great that dad is such an accomplished pilot but I can't help but feel this child is too young to be exposed to unnecessary danger. If an accident happened the tragedy would haunt the surviving families for life. It's just not right.

"It’s all fun and games until someone gets hurt."

Of course they could die in a car accident on the way home.

@RayThom Mild aerobatics, properly executed in a plane certified for them, are no more dangerous than level flight. Note that there was no time that negative G forces existed. The kid's hair never flopped around, and she giggled the whole time. Wearing a flight jacket with a Canadian insignia, he may even be an Air Force pilot. Just a guess. He could have bought it from ebay.

With encouragement from her dad, she may become the next Patty Wagstaff. (Or Mary Aiken, 1960 women's aerobatic champion who gave me my private check ride as an FAA designee in 1978.) My only complaint is that he forced his daughter to do all those stunts in French.

http://www.pattywagstaff.com/bio.html

MG McAnick wrote:@RayThom Mild aerobatics, properly executed in a plane certified for them, are no more dangerous than level flight. Note that there was no time that negative G forces existed. The kid's hair never flopped around, and she giggled the whole time. Wearing a flight jacket with a Canadian insignia, he may even be an Air Force pilot. Just a guess. He could have bought it from ebay.
With encouragement from her dad, she may become the next Patty Wagstaff.

No pilot ever gets into a plane expecting disaster. I'm pretty sure that's why the FAA refer to them as "accidents." I can't help but feel this dad was thinking more for himself than for the welfare of his daughter. For me, I never had children in the plane during a "fun" flight. It just wouldn't feel right.

“There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.”

No guts, no glory. No wonder you quit flying RayThom. I don't think your heart was in it. Mine is, but has other issues these days.

I'd estimate that 90% of my 1100+ PIC hours were for fun. All of them WERE fun, whether they were FOR fun or not. If I had not taken my three kids, not to mention Mrs Mc, on many of those fun flights, they wouldn't have seen the black hills of SD, Washington DC twice, San Antonio, Yellowstone, multiple destinations in Colorado, upstate New York, or Disney World/Epcot three times. Flying is fun. Getting there is half the fun.

Sarcoidosis has severely paralyzed my lungs (and all organ functions related to the phrenic nerve) and I can no longer breath well at altitude. For me hypoxia sets in at about 2000' MSL.

Due to these progressive health problems I was forced into "very early retirement" from Fidelity Investments in 1999. Trying to stay afloat I spent my savings and pension money, and once depleted, I was went to median SSD. The disposable income I once had for plane rental is now nonexistent and rent, utilities, and food have taken its place.

The last time I took a plane out for a few hours was in 1996. Better safe than sorry. Besides, I'd no longer pass the FAA physical requirements. Since then, I've flown occasionally with an pilot buddy who owns an old Mooney but I'm loopy once the ride is over.

It was a wonderful chapter in my life. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. Sigh!

MG McAnick wrote:No guts, no glory. No wonder you quit flying RayThom. I don't think your heart was in it. Mine is, but has other issues these days.

I'd estimate that 90% of my 1100+ PIC hours were for fun. All of them WERE fun, whether they were FOR fun or not. If I had not taken my three kids, not to mention Mrs Mc, on many of those fun flights, they wouldn't have seen the black hills of SD, Washington DC twice, San Antonio, Yellowstone, multiple destinations in Colorado, upstate New York, or Disney World/Epcot three times. Flying is fun. Getting there is half the fun.

You'll get no argument from me on that, MG.

-"BB"-

yer all nuts.

flying is for the birds.

yrs

luddito

when my son was about 10 he went with my mom to a party at her friends house in the country.

unbeknownst to me, her friend and his friends were pilots and there was a small airstrip on his property.

she let my son go up in a small plane, without my permission.

I was livid (and still am as I think about it), and I didn t speak to her for months

At the risk of going way off-topic here, wesw, I'd appreciate it if you would clarify a couple of points.
1) You say that you were "livid" over the fact that your son got an airplane ride without your permission.  For Pete's sake, why?
2) You also say "when my son was 10."  How old is he now (in other words, how long ago was this)?
I'll withhold any further comment on this until those questions are answered.

-"BB"-

well, it was about 15 yrs ago.

and duh, I did not know the pilot, I did not know the state of the plane, I did not know the state of the airstrip. all I knew was that he was going to a BBQ type get together.

...and he is MY fucking son and no one has the right to put another s child in danger, to put them in the fucking air, without consulting the parent who is responsible for that child s survival.

any more questions?

Irrespective of whether I think a child flying is in any greater danger than a child in a car is, your mother, or MIL should not have done it without speaking to you first.

And wesw being wesw I shall assume you didn't know the state of the state either.

...and he is MY fucking son and no one has the right to put another s child in danger, to put them in the fucking air, without consulting the parent who is responsible for that child s survival.

But if he had put the kids into the back of his pick-em-up truck and driven them into town to a movie or an amusement park, that would have been fine, right?  And then you still get PO'd about it 15 years later?  I'll bet your son probably doesn't even remember it any longer.
BTW, who's to say that the PIC didn't ask your mom about it and get an OK from her?  She was, after all, the grandmother-on-the-scene.  Or are you saying that she wouldn't give a shit about the child's welfare?

and duh, I did not know the pilot, I did not know the state of the plane, I did not know the state of the airstrip.

Hell, for all you knew then you could have been sending the kid off to John Gacy's house.  For BBQ, of course.

I'm so damned glad you weren't *MY* father.  He had his warts and foibles too, but he was nothing like this:


-"BB"-

BB, I realize that your assumptions were made in a state of ignorance and I will kindly refrain from responding.

you re welcome.

...but really , most people remember when they were 10...., maybe you are just weirdly different in that regard....

Get over it, wes.

Your initial anger was perhaps justified, but 15 years later?

Not good for you to hold onto anger for such a long time.

Let it go, man!

eta: I first went up in my uncle's private plane when I was ten (I'm 63 now) and that is a fond memory I will cherish until my death.

I m not still mad, man.

I had a little flash of anger that was part of the memory is all.

...but again, your concern is appreciated for what it is....

what pissed me off was the nerve of bicycle bill, which I quickly got over as well. grudges hurt the grudger more than they hurt the grudgee, in theory anyway..., as long as the grudger doesn t beat the crap out of the grudgee.....

...but again, I appreciate his concern for what it was....

MG McAnick wrote:My only complaint is that he forced his daughter to do all those stunts in French.

About 90% of what she said was, "Encore, encore!"

Bicycle Bill wrote: I'll bet your son probably doesn't even remember it any longer.

I'll bet he remembers, quite fondly, unless the pilot tried to scare him, in which case he'll remember, not quite as fondly.

I have lost count of the number of first airplane rides I've given. They were as young as two and as old as 70ish. My step-father's first plane ride was two weeks after I got my license. We went to Florida for a week with two stops enroute. I gave three teen aged exchange students from Kazakhstan a ride, and landed twice at airports 30 miles apart before coming home so that each of them could handle the dual controls. That was 12 years ago. Private aircraft were unknown in Kazakhstan, so they'd have never gotten a light plane ride otherwise. One of them now serves as a pilot in the Kazakh Air Force. Something must have clicked. Another is a lawyer. Don't know about the third.

AFAIK the only person I ever scared was the husband of one of my best friends. She was in the back seat, and kept saying things to calm him as we came into to my home airport. He wasn't ready for landing between hangars lining the runway 120' apart. I'll admit they do seem close as you land.

I've never had a parent turn down a plane ride for a child. Many have asked to go along.

Check out the EAA's Young Eagles program here: https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/aviation-edu ... es-program