World's Newest Indian

[dgs49]

In 2011, Polaris, a Minnesota-based manufacturer of (mainly) snowmobiles and ATV’s bought the residue of the old Indian motorcycle company, and has been selling a relatively few Indian bikes since then, based on the old design that it inherited from the previous Indian owners. Polaris will formally unveil its all-new 2014 Indian Chief at Sturgis in early August. A couple companies have tried unsuccessfully to resurrect the Indian brand since the original company went belly-up in 1953. Indian had a loyal following while it survived, and had its share of breakthrough innovations and racing successes, giving it an impressive “history,” even if neither Polaris nor the motorcycle they are making have anything to do with the previous company – other than styling cues. To the general public, the name “Indian” is mainly associated with valenced fenders, seats with leather fringes, and a distinctive Indian-head logo, that distinguished their bikes from the contemporary Harley’s. A more esoteric point: the last Indian’s had a unique frame design, with the rear wheel suspended independently of the rest of the motorcycle. This resulted in the seat (and particularly the passenger seat, if there was one) suspended several inches over the rear fender. Because of the odd appearance of this floating seat, it was common to have leather tassels hanging from the seat, to conceal that large gap. Kawasaki currently makes a copy of the old Indian Chief, that it calls the “Drifter,” which incorporates that design feature. The new Indian bikes have a more conventional suspension with the entire frame suspended as a single unit, and the passenger seat resting on the rear fender. So…ironically, the Japanese copy of the Indian Chief is more historically authentic than the Indian copy.

Polaris brings to the table the old Indian logos and design cues, which it purchased from the previous owner, along with the financial strength of a three billion dollar (annual sales) company.

Polaris recently announced pricing for the new “Chief” that is competitive with big, comparable Harley’s, such as the Road King (about nineteen grand). The carryover bikes were outrageously expensive, due to inefficient manufacturing processes and limited purchasing power under the previous brand owner.

Polaris has previously tried to chew away some of H-D’s market share with their own “Victory” brand of motorcycles, which are unique and stylish after a fashion, but have not caught on to the extent they had hoped. Victory has about 5% of the domestic market for heavy street bikes, and will be sold alongside the Indian-branded bikes. There are no significant common components.

Harley Davidson has about 50% of the overall U.S. motorcycle market, dwarfing every other competitor, and it sells well overseas, as well. It makes oodles of money not only by selling lots of large, expensive motorcycles, but also with logo merchandise, which is sold not only in H-D dealerships but in a cornucopia of retail outlets, extending as far as Hallmark card stores. Harley has brand loyalty among people who have never – and would never dream of – actually owning a motorcycle, and people who own and ride them are constantly stroked by a semi-adoring public, who apparently see them as latter-day cowboys, vaguely delinquent and dangerous but lovable nevertheless.

Polaris obviously sees similar merchandising potential with the iconic Indian name and logo. One can only hope that some group of Native Americans doesn’t end up suing them for some real or imaginary crime against their heritage.

Harley’s long-term success has been based on, in no particular order, a unique sound that emanates from an engine that is intentionally unbalanced (sometimes described as “potato, potato”); exceptional fit and finish; exceptional resale value (diminished somewhat in recent years); and the fact that it is perceived as the only “real” American motorcycle company. (A large percentage of their components are sourced from offshore. In fact, many “Japanese-branded” motorcycles have more U.S. content than a typical H-D cruiser). Indian wants to be thought of as The Alternative American Motorcycle Company.

Truly, as motorcycle “Cruisers” go, the new Indian Chief is a stunning beast, with an engine that can fairly be described as a mechanical work of art. If I were smarter at this stuff, I could link a picture.

Polaris has spent a great deal of time and effort in developing an engine that is visually striking, looks like the 74 c.i. V-2 that powered that last “real” Indian’s, performs at least as well as the air-cooled Harley’s, and has its own distinctive and pleasing sound. From all indications, they have succeeded in all of this (you can hear the sound at various websites).

As a person who takes an interest in the mechanical side of things, I find it somewhat disappointing that Polaris is taking pains to cling to an outdated engine design, rather than designing something that is modern and up to date. In effect, they are building an enhanced and improved version of engines that may have been clever in 1912, but are now technically obsolete.

They do this because they have concluded that the American public simply will not embrace any motorcycle that is not similar in basic appearance and design to a Harley. But Japanese manufacturers have been trying this strategy since the early 80’s, and have barely cracked the surface (relatively speaking) of Harley’s market dominance. They have built bikes that look very similar to Harley’s, and offered superior performance, reliability, NVH, and ease of ownership, but the people who buy Harley’s simply don’t care about such mundane things.

Still, the “American” brand thing might have an impact if they can produce motorcycles that do not have any conspicuous problems, and if they can rapidly create a dealer network to service the bikes. Maybe they can induce their snowmobile and ATV dealers to tool up for motorcycles.

To outline some of the mechanical particulars, the engine of the new Indian Chief is an air-cooled, pushrod V-2, with a single-pin crank. It will displace 1811cc’s, and produce about 100 bhp and 115 lb-ft of torque. Modern motorcycles with three and four-cylinder, water-cooled in line engines can produce similar power with about half the displacement, with minimal vibration, and will run on regular gas (the Chief requires high-octane fuel). The only design benefit to the V-2 is that it is narrow, but these bikes are very wide anyway, so saving a couple inches of width is pointless.

I hope they succeed with this bike. Harley has had it too easy for too long, IMHO.

[Gob]

To the general public, the name “Indian” is mainly associated with valenced fenders, seats with leather fringes, and a distinctive Indian-head logo, that distinguished their bikes from the contemporary Harley’s.

Are they not being branded racist for this?

To outline some of the mechanical particulars, the engine of the new Indian Chief is an air-cooled, pushrod V-2, with a single-pin crank. It will displace 1811cc’s, and produce about 100 bhp and 115 lb-ft of torque. Modern motorcycles with three and four-cylinder, water-cooled in line engines can produce similar power with about half the displacement, with minimal vibration, and will run on regular gas (the Chief requires high-octane fuel). The only design benefit to the V-2 is that it is narrow, but these bikes are very wide anyway, so saving a couple inches of width is pointless.

Another fat slow pig then? Who needs/rides one?

Harley has had it too easy for too long, IMHO.

God only knows why, Harleys are lumps.

[dales]

But they have panache!

[Econoline]

Harley Davidson has about 50% of the overall U.S. motorcycle market, dwarfing every other competitor, and it sells well overseas, as well. It makes oodles of money not only by selling lots of large, expensive motorcycles, but also with logo merchandise, which is sold not only in H-D dealerships but in a cornucopia of retail outlets, extending as far as Hallmark card stores. Harley has brand loyalty among people who have never – and would never dream of – actually owning a motorcycle, and people who own and ride them are constantly stroked by a semi-adoring public, who apparently see them as latter-day cowboys, vaguely delinquent and dangerous but lovable nevertheless.

Chicken Steve proudly rode a Harley. 'Nuff said.

[oldr_n_wsr]

I rode my dad's Harley over the weekend. He's talking about not riding anymore. At 81 (in a week) it might be time although he does love riding. His bike is a HD Heritage CLassic, 2002 and he put almost 70K miles on it.
When he was younger, he had an Indian MC. And we have a Polaris snowmobile (and 2 arctic cats)

My bike is a Kawasaki Vulcan.

We'll see how the "new" Indian fares. The last version came and went so fast, I didn't even get a chance to go to the local dealer and see what they had.

[dgs49]

"Fast" is a relative term when it comes to motorcycles.

A "fast" crotch rocket will go from 0-60 in less than three seconds and top out over 150mph (if you are crazy enough to want to do it).

A "fast" cruiser (Harley or Harley clone) will go from 0-60 in 5-6 seconds and top out around 110 (if you are silly enough to try it). The fastest Harley - the V-Rod, which many Harley people don't consider a "real" Harley - will go from 0-60 in a little over 4 seconds and top out around 130.

(Keep in mind that high-speed riding on a cruiser is largely influenced by the presence or absence of a windshield or fairing. With no frontal protection, traveling at over 80 mph is - let's just say - no fun, because of the wind in your face).

There are not many times when a shortage of power is an issue on a motorcycle, and ANY Harley - despite their being "slow" as motorcycles go - is fast enough for any normal riding situation. But any 500cc crotch rocket will run rings around a typical cruiser of three times the displacement.

[oldr_n_wsr]

65mph is usually my limit when cruising. My son has a crotch rocket, very uncomfortable as far as I am concerned.

[Gob]

A "fast" crotch rocket will go from 0-60 in less than three seconds and top out over 150mph (if you are crazy enough to want to do it).

Doesn't even have to be a 'fast" one these days, my old 650 sports was close to those times.

[dgs49]

It's difficult to keep track. The MC magazines I read don't focus much on pure performance testing (as is done with cars) because with those acceleration capabilities, the rider's reaction times and skill become at least as important as the power of the bike.

I read several years ago that the Japanese manufacturers had a "gentlemens' agreement" not to sell any stock bike that would exceed 300kph, but I think that has been surpassed in more recent times.

Fucking nuts, if you ask me.

[Gob]

Fun though

[dales]

"Donor Cycle"

[Jarlaxle]

"zoom-splat"