Brake-Checking Follies

[Econoline]

OK, I'll bite: how *DO* you get someone who's tailgating you at a high speed to back off?

[Joe Guy]

Change lanes.

[Scooter]

Why in the hell do you (and others, like just about everybody else in this thread as well as the guy driving the Subaru in the original video) feel that you do not need to follow the speed limit but in fact *SHOULD* be allowed to drive with impunity at whatever speed you so choose?

I am the guy who is typically doing 100-110km/h (at or just above the speed limit) and recognize that as a result I should be pulling over to the right when I see cars bearing down behind me at high speed. I would certainly never be the jackass who believes he has the right to hog the left hand lane just because no one should be driving any faster than he is.

[Bicycle Bill]

So far yet, no one has addressed the question I asked, which was:

"Why in the hell do you ... feel that you do not need to follow the speed limit but in fact *SHOULD* be allowed to drive with impunity at whatever speed you so choose?"

-"BB"-

[Joe Guy]

Nobody said that.

[Burning Petard]

to answer your question directly BB:

Because I know how speed limits are established. Because I know speed limits are enforced by the police as a revenue source, not a traffic safety issue. Because I know I must drive to stay alive, not to obstruct traffic when I observe others driving in a manner that violates particular laws.

The question you posted asks: you. . . you. . . but in fact "should". . . be allowed. . . you. . .

Most of all because I drive for me. YOU are some other guy I do not control. If you are an asshole moving up behind me at thirty miles over the speed limit and twenty miles faster than me, [probably in a BMW] I move over. Not because you SHOULD have some special right, but because I want to get out of your way. I feel no need to teach YOU anything, not even by demonstrating the middle finger salute. I "allow" lots of assholes, idiots, ill-mannered, to continue on their way in many aspects of life without any effort on my part to demonstrate or teach them anything. My typical response is to smile at their behavior because it is so disruptive of society and thus inferior to my own informed elitism.

Smugness is so much more personally rewarding. Nobody has ever pulled up beside me in their vehicle and started shooting at me. Not even a cop.

I once got a speeding ticket issued by a deputy sherif for driving at 102mph on a road with a posted limit of 55. It was right about dawn, weather clear and road dry, on hiway 24 South of Liberty Missouri more than 30 years ago. The road was perfectly straight for miles, slightly down hill. No traffic. Really no traffic. No cars passed us in either direction during the entire time his flashing lights pulled me over until he left me and I continued on my way--none. I violated the law. Was my speed unsafe under those particular conditions? Well yes. I had been driving straight thru to Kansas City from Delaware, except for a two hour break in Chicago to visit with my son. I should have seen his obvious cop car on the side of the road and slowed down before he clocked me at that speed. Probably would have still been more than ten over the limit, but not nearly double. I was fatigued and my driving cognitive performance was lousy. If I had stopped at a motel North of Liberty and got a shower and 5 hours sleep first, I think my speed under those conditions would not have been unsafe.

So It was a righteous traffic stop that did me good, even if it did hurt my bank account. At that time there was bad communication out of state, so it did not affect my driver record for points or insurance premium.

Snail gate

[MajGenl.Meade]

What, is this "Pile On Bicycle Bill Day" today?  If it is, I must have missed the memo.

OK, Meade et al, let's look at this from a slightly different perspective then.

Why in the hell do you (and others, like just about everybody else in this thread as well as the guy driving the Subaru in the original video) feel that you do not need to follow the speed limit but in fact *SHOULD* be allowed to drive with impunity at whatever speed you so choose?

-"BB"-

Error, Will Robinson.I do not exceed the speed limit. Why do you assume that my belief in not acting like an asshole means I act like an asshole?

I drive at the speed limit and I use cruise control, even at 25mph in a 25 zone (that pisses people off because it's often just one lane so they have to obey too). I do not enjoy being behind people driving at 30 in a 35. It irks me. But I don't tailgate - it's illegal (and stupid). On the freeway, I drive in the right hand lane at the speed limit and pull out to overtake slower vehicles. I travel at the speed limit to do the overtaking. Sometimes that takes a while and speed hogs tailgate me - their problem; they can wait until I'm good and done passing and can safely pull over to the right.

What Scooter said - the Hondass had plenty of time to pull to the right, allow the other idiot to pass and then overtake that 3rd vehicle. He was "overtaking" at the point where he jammed on his anchors.

Besides, as I pointed out before, a light touch on the brake will flash the brake lights without slowing the vehicle down. It usually works to give the tailgater a bit of caution. I prefer not to do it because it just causes anger which people like the Hondass might take out on other innocent motorists.

[Econoline]

I see a bit of a contradiction here:

(A) I travel at the speed limit to do the overtaking. Sometimes that takes a while and speed hogs tailgate me - their problem; they can wait until I'm good and done passing and can safely pull over to the right.

(2) What Scooter said - the Hondass had plenty of time to pull to the right, allow the other idiot to pass and then overtake that 3rd vehicle.

(2) demonstrates that it's a lot easier to make that judgement call (i.e., exactly when you can "safely pull over") from watching 30 seconds of video than it is when you're actually behind the wheel of a vehicle moving at 70-80 mph. And (A) indicates that, in the same situation, you might have done the same thing (except for doing the "brake check" correctly: you're right about that).

BTW...has it occurred to anyone else that the guy in the Subaru was NOT swerving in order to avoid rear-ending the Honda, but rather he was swerving and accelerating in order to attempt to pass the Honda, at a a VERY high speed, on the RIGHT?????

I would not say this if anyone were killed or seriously injured, but as long as there was only property damage and as long as it was limited to the Subaru, that driver got just what he deserved--and hopefully he learned a valuable lesson both about driving and about patience taking less time than impatience. (Or maybe not: in his description of the crash on YouTube, he indicates that he thinks the other driver "caus[ed him] to lose control of [his] car". Uh, no, asshole....you acting like an asshole caused you to lose control of your car.)

[Burning Petard]

Amen. And I definitely would not have tried that lane change in an Econoline. Although I did manage to do something similar once about 2am on the Kansas turnpike in a first generation Econoline, at about 60 mph East of Salina. Scary.

Snail gate

[Joe Guy]

BTW...has it occurred to anyone else that the guy in the Subaru was NOT swerving in order to avoid rear-ending the Honda, but rather he was swerving and accelerating in order to attempt to pass the Honda, at a a VERY high speed, on the RIGHT?????

It doesn't look like that to me. It looks like he was going too fast, hit his brakes and swerved to avoid hitting the Honda. Out of the two of them, I think the Subaru driver is the bigger asshole because he was tailgating. The Honda driver was doing a self-justified illegal action aka/BB maneuver, which was wrong to do, but he would never have done that if the guy behind him had not been driving like an idiot.

[MajGenl.Meade]

So far yet, no one has addressed the question I asked, which was:

"Why in the hell do you ... feel that you do not need to follow the speed limit but in fact *SHOULD* be allowed to drive with impunity at whatever speed you so choose?"

-"BB"-

I addressed it, especially since you addressed the original to me, but my post vanished... it went something like this:

I travel at the speed limit; I do not speed. I set my cruise control, even at 25 in a 25mph zone (which pisses off other drivers on one lane roads but I don't care). I travel in the right hand lane, except when passing. I do the speed limit when passing. If that means it takes 10 minutes to overhaul another vehicle and then have assured clear distance to move back to the right, that's what I do. Speeding traffic behind me can suck an egg - I'll move over when I can safely do so.

I do not: hog the left hand lane just to be an asshole. Think that I'm a traffic cop. Do brake checks (altho' I've been known to tap the brake just to flash the lights and acknowledge to the nice person behind me that I know they want to read my VIN). Such a tap does not slow my vehicle one iota but it sometimes helps the person behind me check their high beams.

I sometimes pray for the police to apprehend people driving at excessive speeds on any road, self-righteous little bugger that I am. I have not found this effective.

Neither I nor anyone else here has even once suggested that people should be allowed to drive at whatever speed they like with impunity. Straw man... stalking horse... red herring... rubbish... one or more of those is what that is.

[Econoline]

[RayThom]

BB, you're depriving yourself of the full Bicycle Bill driving experience.

By camping out in the passing lane and having motorists driving behind you at what you deem to be the proper speed -- all with a smug, self-satisfied, smirk on your face -- you're going to limit your opportunities to pass all those scofflaws being pulled over for exceeding your limit -- all with a smug, self-satisfied, smirk on your face.

I'm a "go with the flow" kind of guy so I'm not sure what you can do. Maybe if you rethink your strategy I bet you can find a rewarding balance. Remember, your lesson obviously comes from the journey, and not getting to your destination in a reasonable amount of time.

[Econoline]

BTW...has it occurred to anyone else that the guy in the Subaru was NOT swerving in order to avoid rear-ending the Honda, but rather he was swerving and accelerating in order to attempt to pass the Honda, at a a VERY high speed, on the RIGHT?????

It doesn't look like that to me. It looks like he was going too fast, hit his brakes and swerved to avoid hitting the Honda. Out of the two of them, I think the Subaru driver is the bigger asshole because he was tailgating. The Honda driver was doing a self-justified illegal action aka/BB maneuver, which was wrong to do, but he would never have done that if the guy behind him had not been driving like an idiot.

Look at the video again. Mr.Stuparu was actually closer to to the Honda at the time of the first brake check than he was the second time it happened--yet he had no trouble hitting the brakes and avoiding an accident that first time.

[Guinevere]

So far yet, no one has addressed the question I asked, which was:

"Why in the hell do you ... feel that you do not need to follow the speed limit but in fact *SHOULD* be allowed to drive with impunity at whatever speed you so choose?"

-"BB"-

Get hired by a police department, go through the Academy, get sworn in, and then its your job, when you're on duty.

Otherwise, you're just an ass taking the law into his own hands as much as the speeders are. Let them suffer the consequence of their actions, it's not your duty or responsibility to do otherwise.

And yes, I drive in excess of the speed limit. I don't drive as fast as I used to, and I pass on the left and generally stay to the right so the faster cars can go by, or I go with the traffic flow.

[rubato]

What, is this "Pile On Bicycle Bill Day" today?  If it is, I must have missed the memo.

... "

-"BB"-

There is a mote in your eye and we're all eager to be the person who finally removes it.

Driving safely is a cooperative enterprise. Being considerate of others needs contributes to a more harmonious driving experience. I don't block other people in the left lane and appreciate it when others don't block me. I frequently use turnouts so I don't block traffic and appreciate it when others do the same.

Using proper lane spacing is critical for safety. If someone is tailgating me I get out of their way. If you refuse to do so you are volunteering to be in their next accident with them and damn well deserve it.

Next topic, merging.

Yrs,
Rubato

[MajGenl.Meade]

I frequently use turnouts so I don't block traffic and appreciate it when others do the same.

There are times when I'm not wanting to do 50mph on a country road (perhaps) but prefer ambling along enjoying the ride. I'm very conscious of drivers behind me who do want to get somewhere quickly and am happy to pull over safely onto a turnout or suitable area to allow them to pass by.

[Joe Guy]

Look at the video again. Mr.Stuparu was actually closer to to the Honda at the time of the first brake check than he was the second time it happened--yet he had no trouble hitting the brakes and avoiding an accident that first time.

It looks to me like the Stupuru was accelerating the second time and that's part of the reason he lost control.

We seem to have reached a stalemate in this discussion, so I suggest we agree to disagree with your opinion.

[MajGenl.Meade]

But if I agree with you, we'll both be wrong.

[rubato]

The Subaru driver was driving above his/her skill level.

The Honda driver was an oblivious idiot.


Yrs,
Rubato