Auto Evolution

[Burning Petard]

There is a sub theory of evolution that says animals evolve bigger and bigger until they collapse. The elephant bird for example. Weight about a thousand pounds and some could have been around 'til the 18th century. There are remains of extinct bears found in South
American that weighed perhaps 4000 pounds, largest known carnivore.

What are the evolutionary forces that drive cars to get ever bigger? I prefer to drive a small sedan. I once had a Renault Alliance. I had three different Ford Escorts, a Pinto and finally a 2002 Focus. The last one I junked in September of this year. I replaced it with a 2018 Toyota Corolla.

Right now it is sitting in the apartment parking lot, right next to an older Corolla. I can't say what the year is for the older one. Just looking, mine is about a foot taller and much wider and longer. WHY? Yesterday the annual buyer's guide from Consumers Report arrived in the mail. They had nothing bad to say about the new Corolla and older ones were listed as part of the better choice for used cars. But smaller cars of all makes were described as no better total operating costs and lesser reliability.

Why does the small car seem to get bigger and smaller cars have lesser reliability? Am I the only person who really wants a small car with great handling and reliability--which means I could plan on jumping into it after a hundred thousand miles and routine maintenance and driving from the East coast to the West coast of the a USofA with only interruptions for add fuel and maintain the human occupants? I could do that with the Pinto and the first Escort, but not the Focus and later Escorts. (I drove that first Escort from Wilmington Delaware to Chicago to Kansas City Missouri at an average of 61 mph, including all stops, even a one hour nap.) And certainly not with the Renault Alliance. I fell for that one because of the reputation of American Motors for building 'good family cars' and ignored the Renault' in the descriptor.

Funny how BMW builds the 'Mini' and Mercedes Benz the 'Smart' car yet both have reliability issues that contradict the makers reputation. Both are small cars that I wish did not exceed my 'predicted-time-in-the-shop-during the first ten years' standard. Please note I am not talking about sticker price. I would be very willing to pay 35 thou for a loaded Mini with the same reliability as a Toyota Camry. Or a modern version of the Volvo P1800ES.

But why oh Why must the car builders keep introducing new model names for their smallest car, while the older badges get bigger?

snailgate

[Guinevere]

I did that exact thing - jumped in it and drove it across the country with the only interruptions to add fuel and take care of myself (plus fix a cracked windshield which happened on a hot hot day coming from Idaho (Yellowstone) into Utah (Salt Lake City), with my beloved VW Cabrio. I adored that car. It's the last "small car" I've had though.

[RayThom]

sg, I think this falls under the term "pseudo-affluence." It's the age old game of economic status -- keeping up with the Jones'.

As the old saying goes, "if you look rich, you probably aren’t." However, my personal motto is "Be Satisfied."

Truth be told, I'd be quite happy owning a new Corvette ZR1, but I'm fine with my 10 year old KIA Forte that has been payment free for over six years.

[Long Run]

But why oh Why must the car builders keep introducing new model names for their smallest car, while the older badges get bigger?

[Crackpot]

Small car means entry level and low profit (often negative profit). Automakers aren’t going to waste thier money on them.

[MGMcAnick]

I once had a Renault Alliance. snailgate

I'm so sorry.

My step father, whom I always refer to as my dad rather than my biological father who didn't play the part well, drove Nashes, Ramblers, and AMC products until AMC went belly up and merged with Renault. I've had a lot of them too, including my 1950 Nashes and my (1st car) '55 Hudson Hornet.

My parents were looking for a new car in the late '70s when AMC dealers were selling the Renault Alliance and Renault Encore. They went to the dealer to try to trade in their AMC Concord. They drove an Alliance. My dad turned to my mom and said "I just can't do this to you". (She was the principal driver, commuting 25 miles each way.) They went down the street and bought an off-lease Buick, the first of three, and never looked back. That AMC dealer became a friend of mine a few years later through the local MG club. He had an MGTD. He told me that the Renault experience caused the bankruptcy of his dealership. They would not pay for the MANY warranty repairs he had to do. He gave several customers their money back, and still had their lemons sitting on a back lot a few years later. Renault never paid up.

I think Crackpot nailed it. There is less profit in a stripped down econobox than there is in a full blown luxury car. Grow them up, and make more money.

On another note, Ford is bringing the Ranger pickup back. It started life as the Ford Courier, grew into the Ranger and grew up from there. Then Ford figured folks would opt for the F-150 since it got (ahem) such "good" mileage. Lots of folks still wanted a small pickup, and had to turn to Japanese manufacturers. It will be interesting to see how that works out for Ford, before the Ranger grows up again.

[Crackpot]

The sad thing is if they invested in the smaller cars and put the higher end options into them they could make money. Automakers just can’t wrap thier head around the concept of a “luxury small car” even though there are. A couple examples already on the market

[Bicycle Bill]

From a practical standpoint, people believe bigger vehicles = safer vehicles.  They figure there's that much more steel and stuff around you ostensibly 'protecting' you.

Also, Americans are getting bigger as the obesity epidemic is showing no signs of slowing down.  Face it; the average American can't even sit in the same seat in a baseball stadium their father or grandfather could. And remember when you could and did fit three people (sometimes four!!) — comfortably — across the back bench seat in an early-'60s 4-door sedan?

And lastly, we want to be up above it all.... which explains the need for a step-up and grab rails, like you're climbing into a Kenworth or Peterbilt, to get into the driver's seat of a modern pickup truck or SUV, and why most of their headlights are at about the same level as the roofline of my 1996 Toyota Camry.

-"BB"-

[dales]

People don't like small cars, they prefer small cross-overs.

[dales]

I had a 1974 Civic which I purchased new ($2850 out the door). It came with 12 inch bias ply tires which wore out at less than 20,000 miles. That was my only compliant except the poor motor was turning over 4000 rpm at 60 mph!

I now have a 2012 Civic (which I purchased used for slightly more than $2850) and besides being a Honda you'd hardly know they were from the same company...…... wow has the Civic changed...……..mostly for the better.

[RayThom]

Re. Honda automobiles. In December '75 I purchased an '76 LX Accord for $3200. I traded in a "near pristine" '66 Caddy DeVille convertible which I loved, and wrote a personal check for the small amount that made up the difference.

With the gas shortage and subsequent ridiculously high prices going on at the time I thought I made the right choice. Everyone I knew at the time kind of implied I was being unpatriotic not buying American and called my car a "rice burner." Ironically, gas prices kept spiking and within two years more than half of those same naysayers were driving (mostly) Hondas. All my primary drivers from '75 to '09 were Hondas until I purchased my '10 Forte.

Here are the cars mentioned... stock photos:

[Jarlaxle]

I once had a Renault Alliance. snailgate

I'm so sorry.

My step father, whom I always refer to as my dad rather than my biological father who didn't play the part well, drove Nashes, Ramblers, and AMC products until AMC went belly up and merged with Renault. I've had a lot of them too, including my 1950 Nashes and my (1st car) '55 Hudson Hornet.

My parents were looking for a new car in the late '70s when AMC dealers were selling the Renault Alliance and Renault Encore. They went to the dealer to try to trade in their AMC Concord. They drove an Alliance. My dad turned to my mom and said "I just can't do this to you". (She was the principal driver, commuting 25 miles each way.) They went down the street and bought an off-lease Buick, the first of three, and never looked back. That AMC dealer became a friend of mine a few years later through the local MG club. He had an MGTD. He told me that the Renault experience caused the bankruptcy of his dealership. They would not pay for the MANY warranty repairs he had to do. He gave several customers their money back, and still had their lemons sitting on a back lot a few years later. Renault never paid up.

I think Crackpot nailed it. There is less profit in a stripped down econobox than there is in a full blown luxury car. Grow them up, and make more money.

On another note, Ford is bringing the Ranger pickup back. It started life as the Ford Courier, grew into the Ranger and grew up from there. Then Ford figured folks would opt for the F-150 since it got (ahem) such "good" mileage. Lots of folks still wanted a small pickup, and had to turn to Japanese manufacturers. It will be interesting to see how that works out for Ford, before the Ranger grows up again.

The Ranger and Courier shared not a single part. The Courier was a Mazda Sundowner pickup, the Ranger was a pure Ford design.

The new "compact" trucks are not small. Honestly...they are stupid vehicles. They are 90% the cost of a fullsize truck, use 95% the fuel, and are half as capable. The new Tacoma is a stupid-tall, stupid-big, stupid-heavy cartoon truck, with a stupid-small bed.

[Jarlaxle]

Re. Honda automobiles. In December '75 I purchased an '76 LX Accord for $3200. I traded in a "near pristine" '66 Caddy DeVille convertible which I loved, and wrote a personal check for the small amount that made up the difference.

With the gas shortage and subsequent ridiculously high prices going on at the time I thought I made the right choice. Everyone I knew at the time kind of implied I was being unpatriotic not buying American and called my car a "rice burner." Ironically, gas prices kept spiking and within two years more than half of those same naysayers were driving (mostly) Hondas. All my primary drivers from '75 to '09 were Hondas until I purchased my '10 Forte.

Here are the cars mentioned... stock photos:

In 1976...I'd rather have a Duster. 28MPG, thank you!

[ex-khobar Andy]

I had a Renault Encore (same as Alliance but hatchback version) - seven years, 70,000 miles, no repairs or costs beyond oil changes, tires and (IIRC) a battery and a brake job. But unfortunately as I discovered to my cost when I wrapped it around a utility pole in a Buffalo blizzard, it was made of tinfoil.

I've had two Fiat 127s - the baby car which supplanted the 500 in the seventies - which were wonderfully sturdy and economical cars. We currently have a Mini which I love driving - my wife had a proper Mini in London 35+ years ago which went everywhere, no problems (apart from the time I didn't latch the bonnet [hood] down properly and it flew up while doing 70 on the M25 - I am not sure that I have yet been forgiven for that) - and my first comment when I first drove the new Mini at the dealership was: "It feels just like a Mini!" It goes where you point it as if it's on rails.

I drive a Mazda 3 hatch which from the outside is a typical compact car but huge inside. I can go to Lowes and put 10 or more 2 x 4 8' studs in it. Great fun to drive. I pretend it's not really a Ford. Having said that why are the European Fords always just way better cars than the US ones? The European Escort was a wonderful car but the US one just a joke.