Slowing the fight

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Gob
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Slowing the fight

Post by Gob »

The race for a vaccine: how Trump's 'America First' approach slows the global search

Scientists around the world believe that humanity will achieve multiple effective Covid-19 vaccines in record time. In the wake of multinational fights against Ebola, Zika, HIV and other killers, the global infrastructure for taking on complicated immunization and vaccination projects has never been more robust, and American expertise plays an essential role.

But even as research labs based in the United States move candidate vaccines into clinical trials and pharmaceutical companies reorganize US factories to prepare for large-scale production, the US government has turned its back on the global coalition fighting the disease.

Unlike Britain, China, Canada, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Japan, numerous African countries, the World Health Organization (WHO), the Gates Foundation and the European commission, the United States did not send representation last week to a virtual global summit that raised more than $8bn for the coronavirus vaccine.

Instead, Trump – who for years has spread dangerous lies about vaccination – has tapped his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, and others to lead what looks like a unilateral push for a vaccine that the administration has dubbed “Operation Warp Speed”.

The details of Operation Warp Speed have not been announced, but the White House has set a target of having 100m vaccine doses by autumn, a goal a Republican senator called “amazingly ambitious” and that scientists decline to credit.[


More here...
/quote]
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

Darren
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Re: Slowing the fight

Post by Darren »

If COVID-19 is a corona virus like the common cold, why don't we have a vaccine for the common cold?

What's the difference between flu vaccines which are on average up to 20% effective and corona viruses?
Thank you RBG wherever you are!

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Joe Guy
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Re: Slowing the fight

Post by Joe Guy »

Darren wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 6:15 pm
If COVID-19 is a corona virus like the common cold, why don't we have a vaccine for the common cold?

Because there are hundreds of viruses that cause the common cold and a cold doesn't kill you.
Darren wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 6:15 pm
What's the difference between flu vaccines which are on average up to 20% effective and corona viruses?
Where did you get your "20% effective" for flu vaccines statistic and what do you mean by "What's the difference?"?

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RayThom
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Slowing the fight

Post by RayThom »

Ah, found it.

That's Darren on the left and his brothers, Daryl and Daryl, center and right.

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“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.” 

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datsunaholic
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Re: Slowing the fight

Post by datsunaholic »

Common cold viruses mutate rapidly- sometimes so quickly that if person A gives the cold to person B, the virus in person B has mutated enough to re-infect person A. The antibodies only work for a specific genetic code of a virus, although if it's close enough the immune system will produce new antibodies much faster than a completely unknown virus. Still doesn't prevent you getting sick, but it's rarely severe.

The big issue is almost every known coronavirus has the same quick-mutation. COVID-19 hasn't mutated much, but it has mutated on occasion (hence the documented cases of reinfection). Obviously it mutated to become human-infecting and then human-transmissible. Hence why it is a "novel" virus, as it wasn't initially human-infecting.

I read at the beginning of this pandemic that there has never been a vaccine for a coronavirus, and that makes sense since they mutate so rapidly.

Influenza viruses are different- they mutate slowly, with the same strain circulating for years which is why flu vaccines are effective against the strains they are developed for (occasionally the vaccine makers guess wrong, though, and the strain that hits hardest didn't have a vaccine made for it). Other viruses almost never mutate- Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Poliovirus, Yellow Fever, Smallpox... these viruses mutate so slowly or not at all that the vaccines developed for them 50, 60, 70 years ago are still effective.
Death is Nature's way of telling you to slow down.

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Slowing the fight

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Darren wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 6:15 pm
If COVID-19 is a corona virus like the common cold, why don't we have a vaccine for the common cold?

What's the difference between flu vaccines which are on average up to 20% effective and corona viruses?
You should ask Doc. She should be about recovered from that OK Corral business by now
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

Darren
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Re: Slowing the fight

Post by Darren »

Hold the presses! Dr. Fauci found an acorn. Say hallelujah!

"Fauci tells Congress: ‘There’s no guarantee that the vaccine is actually going to be effective

"Even once a vaccine to fight the coronavirus is developed, White House health advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci told Congress Tuesday, “There’s no guarantee that the vaccine is actually going to be effective.”

Fauci testified in front of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions about the road to reopening businesses in the U.S. He also warned there’s a potential for a vaccine to make the course of the disease even stronger."

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/12/fauci-t ... SLJr0nx3UA
Thank you RBG wherever you are!

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Slowing the fight

Post by BoSoxGal »

datsunaholic wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:31 pm
Common cold viruses mutate rapidly- sometimes so quickly that if person A gives the cold to person B, the virus in person B has mutated enough to re-infect person A. The antibodies only work for a specific genetic code of a virus, although if it's close enough the immune system will produce new antibodies much faster than a completely unknown virus. Still doesn't prevent you getting sick, but it's rarely severe.

The big issue is almost every known coronavirus has the same quick-mutation. COVID-19 hasn't mutated much, but it has mutated on occasion (hence the documented cases of reinfection). Obviously it mutated to become human-infecting and then human-transmissible. Hence why it is a "novel" virus, as it wasn't initially human-infecting.

I read at the beginning of this pandemic that there has never been a vaccine for a coronavirus, and that makes sense since they mutate so rapidly.

Influenza viruses are different- they mutate slowly, with the same strain circulating for years which is why flu vaccines are effective against the strains they are developed for (occasionally the vaccine makers guess wrong, though, and the strain that hits hardest didn't have a vaccine made for it). Other viruses almost never mutate- Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Poliovirus, Yellow Fever, Smallpox... these viruses mutate so slowly or not at all that the vaccines developed for them 50, 60, 70 years ago are still effective.
Excellent post!

Here is a good spot to plug again the Netflix miniseries Pandemic - released before covid19 but hugely relevant. It discusses so much virology, immunology and epidemiology that you will be 50% smarter after watching. Also details terrific current research on a universal, one shot influenza vaccine that would protect the vast majority of the human population from ALL influenza strains, under development by a startup funded in part by Gates Foundation and headed up by a young guy who, like Salk, wants to make the eventual vaccine available to 7+ billion people at minimal cost to government and healthcare systems. Very inspiring!
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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RayThom
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Slowing the fight

Post by RayThom »

Darren wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 9:15 pm
Hold the presses! Dr. Fauci found an acorn. Say hallelujah!

"Fauci tells Congress: ‘There’s no guarantee that the vaccine is actually going to be effective

"Even once a vaccine to fight the coronavirus is developed, White House health advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci told Congress Tuesday, “There’s no guarantee that the vaccine is actually going to be effective.”

Fauci testified in front of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions about the road to reopening businesses in the U.S. He also warned there’s a potential for a vaccine to make the course of the disease even stronger."
Yet there's nothing saying a vaccine won't be effective.

Doctors are ethically bound not to give false hope. Fauci is merely living up to the oath he swore to when he graduated from medical school.

I do, however, trust the science and feel confident that an effective virus will be developed.
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“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.” 

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: Slowing the fight

Post by Bicycle Bill »

RayThom wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:02 pm
Ah, found it.

That's Darren on the left and his brothers, Daryl and Daryl, center and right.

Image
In poker terms, that looks like three of a kind that still couldn't beat a pair of treys.
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-"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Slowing the fight

Post by BoSoxGal »

RayThom wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 10:48 pm
Darren wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 9:15 pm
Hold the presses! Dr. Fauci found an acorn. Say hallelujah!

"Fauci tells Congress: ‘There’s no guarantee that the vaccine is actually going to be effective

"Even once a vaccine to fight the coronavirus is developed, White House health advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci told Congress Tuesday, “There’s no guarantee that the vaccine is actually going to be effective.”

Fauci testified in front of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions about the road to reopening businesses in the U.S. He also warned there’s a potential for a vaccine to make the course of the disease even stronger."
Yet there's nothing saying a vaccine won't be effective.

Doctors are ethically bound not to give false hope. Fauci is merely living up to the oath he swore to when he graduated from medical school.

I do, however, trust the science and feel confident that an effective virus will be developed.
Okay, but please understand your trusting the science is a bit more like faith - the scientists worldwide who are immunology virology and epidemiology experts trust the science from an experiential perspective and that’s why they are cautioning that a virus that fast is unlikely - because it has never happened.

I believe I posted on this issue weeks ago and will look later when not so foggy from meds. I suspected all along that this message wasn’t being shared much to start because rule #1 in public health is to cultivate a healthy level of fear that sparks cautious behavior while falling just short of instilling panic. It wasn’t time in March or April to be fully honest about the difficulties and lengthy timelines most vaccines face before approval - nevermind production and distribution of ~7 billion doses.

Life isn’t going to be the same for a long time. It changed permanently with the advent of HIV, which still has no vaccine. ~40 years, 75 million infected, 32 million killed - but at least now we have effective treatments for those who can access them.

This coronavirus is far more transmissible - you spread it by breathing and talking, things we can’t abstain from as easily as free and easy unprotected sex and sharing needles.

It’s going to be a bumpy ride.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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