Gun Crazy - Insurance, Anyone?

[Lord Jim]

Ridiculous non- Entirely on point arguments comparing lethal weapons with comparing items which all happen to be capable of being used as lethal weapons. I can't believe that right-thinking people still trot this one could possibly criticize it without seemingly a shred of embarrassment. Failing to see this smacks more ofparanoia myopic obsession than rational thought...

Fixed.

[Sean]

But guns aren't items that "happen to be capable of being used as lethal weapons" Jim... They are items whose primary function is 'lethal weapon'. That's the difference.

And it's a biggie!

[Crackpot]

So the owner should only be liable for the theifs traffic violations?

[Lord Jim]

Well Sean, since you decided to start this up again, let me tell you what I would find embarrassing....

Living in a country where the law placed a higher value on the right to "target shoot" than on the right to defend oneself and one's family....

[Jarlaxle]

Ridiculous non-arguments comparing lethal weapons with items which happen to be capable of being used as lethal weapons. I can't believe that right-thinking people still trot this one out without seemingly a shred of embarrassment. It smacks more of paranoia than rational thought...

Just come out and say it: you want to end private ownership of guns. We both know that is true, just admit it.

[Sean]

Jarl, you are making a wild assumption about me which happens to be complete and utter bollocks! I have posted here in the past that I am in favour of tougher regulations but have never posted anything to suggest I am in favour of a total ban... Mainly because I am not in favour of a total ban.

Is that clear enough for you or are you going to persist down your paranoid path?

[Sean]

Well Sean, since you decided to start this up again, let me tell you what I would find embarrassing....

Living in a country where the law placed a higher value on the right to "target shoot" than on the right to defend oneself and one's family....

And yet somehow we're not all being slaughtered in our beds...

I'm hoping that we can disagree without falling out Jim.

[Lord Jim]

I'm hoping that we can disagree without falling out Jim.

It will be a lot easier to do that, if we avoid things like calling each others arguments "ridiculous" and saying that we should be "embarrassed" to make them, and that our positions are the result of "paranoia" and don't reflect "rational thought"...

[Sean]

Fair enough Jim and I apologise. I also should have made it clear that the word 'paranoid' was in reference to Jarl's post.

Hey, at least I described you as a right-thinking person...

[Lord Jim]

Fair enough Jim and I apologise.

Apology accepted.

[Joe Guy]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahh....... isn't that sweet.............

[rubato]

If you leave your car with the keys in the ignition and someone steals it you are legally liable for all damages.

If you leave a gun un-secured in your house and it is stolen you should be legally liable for all damages.

Why do gun owners demand a lower level of personal responsibility than everyone else in the world?



yrs,
rubato

[Andrew D]

From LawInfo.com:

If You Leave Your Keys In The Ignition Are You Liable For A Thief’s Damages?
598 days ago by Mark Sweet, Esq
...
You run into the store to pick up some milk, but you leave your car idling, it’ll only be a minute, right? But what happens if that car you leave for a minute is stolen? Outside of a major headache, and feeling a bit silly, could you be liable if that thief runs someone over, knocks over a mailbox or crashes it into a tree?

Most Courts Rule The Thief Is Liable Even If You Leave Your Keys In The Ignition

Most courts have answered that the thief’s act is a “superseding” cause of the injuries. This means that the fact you left your key in the ignition didn’t cause the injuries, it was the actions of the thief. Courts have come to this decision because the intervening act (the negligent driving) is not one of the risks of leaving your keys in the ignition. The kind of injury (whether personal or property damage) is not the kind of result that usually happens by leaving your key in the ignition.

I see no reason why the same reasoning would not apply to firearms. And if a person is not liable for what is done with a firearm which has been stolen from that person, then there is nothing for "gun insurance" to cover.

[Andrew D]

The whole secure-storage argument has a serious problem -- a constitutional problem. In the Heller case, one of the DC laws at issue "require[d] residents to keep their lawfully owned firearms, such as registered long guns, 'unloaded and dissembled or bound by a trigger lock or similar device' unless they are located in a place of business or are being used for lawful recreational activities."

The Supreme Court struck down that law:

We must also address the District’s requirement (as applied to respondent’s handgun) that firearms in the home be rendered and kept inoperable at all times. This makes it impossible for citizens to use them for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional.

It does not take a law degree to grasp that anything which renders a firearm useless for self-defense in the home is likewise unconstitutional.

[Lord Jim]

Most courts have answered that the thief’s act is a “superseding” cause of the injuries. This means that the fact you left your key in the ignition didn’t cause the injuries, it was the actions of the thief.

Gee, now that's what I call common sense....

And besides that, an appropriate analogy for an "unsecured" gun wouldn't be a car sitting on the street idling with the keys in the ignition...(the analogy for that would be a gun left loaded out on a front porch...a lot more than merely "unsecured")

An appropriate analogy for what people typically mean as "unsecured" regarding firearms (say having one in a bedroom drawer, as one might a jewelry box) would be a car locked in a garage (since for a criminal to steal an "unsecured" gun still requires breaking and entering into the home) with the keys in the ignition, not idling on the street or in a store parking lot.