Long time gone

[Crackpot]

I also wonder about the ability to prove the charge

[dales]

There's the rub.

After a more careful consideration (I'd dearly love to see the sick bastard put to death). Life without parole is the only LEGAL outcome of this sordid mess.

[Rick]

Evidently these are what constitute capital offenses in Ohio

Aggravated murder with at least one of the following special circumstances:

The defendant knowingly created a grave risk of death for one or more persons in addition to the victim of the offense.

The murder was committed for pecuniary gain or pursuant to an agreement that the defendant would receive something of value.

The capital offense was committed by a person who is incarcerated, has escaped, is on probation, is in jail, or is under a sentence of imprisonment.

The offender in the commission of the offense, purposefully caused the death of another who was under thirteen years of age at the time of the commission of the offense and the defendant committed the offense with prior calculation and design.

The offense was the assassination of the president of the United States or person in line of succession to the presidency, or of the governor or lieutenant governor of this state, or of the president-elect or vice president-elect of the United States, or of the governor-elect of this state, or of a candidate for any of the foregoing offices.

The murder was committed against a witness in a criminal proceeding to prevent the witness from appearing, or for revenge.

The offense was committed while the offender was committing, attempting to commit, or fleeing immediately after committing or attempting to commit terrorism.

The 2 I figger he would use in as much as he caused the girls to miscarry...

[Crackpot]

What evidence exists that the girls were pregnant or miscarried or that he even caused it?

[Rick]

Testimony of the victim?

[Crackpot]

The victim by definition is dead. The "mother" has motive to want to severly punish the defendant. Absent any physical evidence it is a case of hearsay.

[Rick]

Corpus delicti...

[dales]

Using them fancy legal terms again, I had to look that one up.

[Rick]

So did I Dales

[Jarlaxle]

Jarl, you do realize the "guy" in that picture is Jeffrey Dahmer?

Yes. Next question.

[Lord Jim]

CP, it is not at all uncommon to charge (and convict) someone who kills a woman who is pregnant with a double homicide (Scott Peterson got that even here in California)

Most state laws are crafted in such a way (and my understanding is that the law in Ohio meets this standard) such that it does not involve the whole abortion debate...

I also wonder about the ability to prove the charge

Now that's another question...

Unless they are able to find the bodies of these fetuses/babies, the proof of this having happened is going to be based entirely on the testimony of these young women...

But given the nature of this case, and the undisputed facts about this, any jury is going to take whatever these girls say as gospel....

Would you like to be the lawyer cross examining a girl who was held as a sexual slave for 10 years, asking her questions in front of a jury like "well, are you sure he punched you hard enough to make you miscarry? And, "do you have a specific recollection of how many times he forced you to miscarry? "

This case is a defense lawyer's nightmare...

(If you're the defense lawyer in a case like this, and your name becomes publicly known, you're going to get death threats; that's a given...)

If you're the defense lawyer in a case like this, the only thing you can do is to try to save your client's life and get him life in prison, and hope The State is willing to cut a deal like that to spare having his victims testify on the stand...

Because if this goes to trial, given the undisputed facts in this case, and the Death Penalty is on the table, your client is going to get the Death Penalty, no doubt about it...

There's no jury in Ohio, (or anywhere else) that wouldn't vote to fry your client in this case, given that option...

[Crackpot]

Actually a good lawyer would not rely on testimony but hinge his argument on the lack of evidence.

[Joe Guy]

Has anyone in California or anywhere else in the U.S. been convicted of murder for causing the death of a fetus in a case where the mother was not killed?

Given the fact that the mother was not killed this case I would think it would most certainly cause people to argue about abortion, regardless of its relevance to the case.

[Lord Jim]

Actually a good lawyer would not rely on testimony but hinge his argument on the lack of evidence.

Well, then you're going to have to try and figure out a way to make that case without calling any of the victims to the stand, and trying to impugn their testimony...

Because the minute one of those girls takes the stand in front of a jury, your client is dead meat...

[Crackpot]

What are your feelings toward the defendant?
Want him dead you say.
No further questions your honor.

In our system the burden of proof lies with the state. In this case the persecution will have a hard time meeting any standard of reasonable doubt.

[Lord Jim]

In our system the burden of proof lies with the state.

Indeed it does...

But also under our system the decision lies with the jury...

I don't doubt that a year or two from now, (when this case will finally come to trial) that they will be able to empanel 12 people who will swear that even though they have heard about this case, (because it's ridiculous to think you could find people who wont have even heard about the case) that they are able to judge the facts objectively....

I also have no doubt that given the facts in this case, it is overwhelmingly likely that if the Death Penalty is an option, that a jury will give it....

If there are statutory or Constitutional questions involved in that decision, that will be for an appellate court to rule on....

[Long Run]

I don't doubt that a year or two from now, (when this case will finally come to trial)

I'm surprised by your ignorance given the amount of police shows you watch; trials begin within a few days of the arrest, leaving no time for a new hairdo, or to purchase a new suit by the lawyers. Oh wait, this belongs in the DGs' rant about television plot conveniences.

[Lord Jim]

[Lord Jim]

The only way I see this scumbag (I refuse to call him an "animal"...that's an insult to animals...there are no members of the animal kingdom that would behave this way) avoiding a jury giving him the death penalty is if first, he fully cooperates...(which from all accounts he appears to be doing)

And second, (and more importantly) the girls and their families decide they don't want to go through a trial....

That's really the only hope that this punk and his lawyers have...

I saw the DA of Cuyahoga County give a press conference a couple of days ago, and he seemed very serious minded about this...

The only way he could possibly cut a deal to avoid a trial and spare this guy's life is if the victims agreed to it....

Otherwise it would be a political impossibility...

[oldr_n_wsr]

(I refuse to call him an "animal"...that's an insult to animals...there are no members of the animal kingdom that would behave this way)

I read (or saw on Nat Geo) If a new male lion takes over a pride (former head of the pride dies or is killed for instance) the new "leader" will kill the cubs sired by the old leader as they are not his offspring.

Don't know what hapens to pregnant female lions and the brood she is carrying.