Britain goes halal, on the sly

[Scooter]

It's not dodging at all.

If your friend is so concerned about eating meat "offered to idols" then she would ask it about every bite of meat that passes her mouth, not just that which she happens to know is halal.

If she doesn't, she's just a bigot, and her "sensibilities" can be justly ignored.

eta - or she could look for the label that says "not offered to idols" and assume that she needs to stay away from everything else. Much like Jews and Muslims do now to ensure they are eating only kosher or halal products.

[Sue U]

What Scooter said. Apart from the fact that this friend and her church appear to be idiots, halal and kosher products (at least here in the States) are clearly marked in the supermarket. If you want to eat in a "Christian-food-only" restaurant, then go and find one the same way Jews and Muslims find kosher and halal restaurants.

I think everyone should know exactly where their food products come from and how they are produced, but to do so in a manner that panders to religious bigotry is unacceptable.

[Sean]

It's not dodging at all.

If your friend is so concerned about eating meat "offered to idols" then she would ask it about every bite of meat that passes her mouth, not just that which she happens to know is halal.

If she doesn't, she's just a bigot, and her "sensibilities" can be justly ignored.

eta - or she could look for the label that says "not offered to idols" and assume that she needs to stay away from everything else. Much like Jews and Muslims do now to ensure they are eating only kosher or halal products.

So her religious views are at best inconsequential and at worst bigoted.

Nice.

As for the part I bolded, would that not be...

...wait for it...

Making an informed choice!

[Sean]

What Scooter said. Apart from the fact that this friend and her church appear to be idiots, halal and kosher products (at least here in the States) are clearly marked in the supermarket. If you want to eat in a "Christian-food-only" restaurant, then go and find one the same way Jews and Muslims find kosher and halal restaurants.

I think everyone should know exactly where their food products come from and how they are produced, but to do so in a manner that panders to religious bigotry is unacceptable.

How exactly can you decry religious bigotry after calling my friend an idiot for her beliefs?

[Gob]

What Scooter said. Apart from the fact that this friend and her church appear to be idiots, halal and kosher products (at least here in the States) are clearly marked in the supermarket. .

So it's ok for it to be labelled as such in US supermarkets, but when we Brits ask for the same courtesy, you and Scoot call us bigots.

How does that work then?

[Scooter]

It's very simple. An observant Jew who is shopping for meat knows that he/she can only be sure of buying kosher products if they are labelled as such. Other products may or may not be kosher, but to be on the safe side he/she will not buy them. No one is obligated to label products as kosher just because they happen to be prepared that way. And no Jew has the right to demand to know whether a particular product is kosher when it is not labelled as such.

Same goes for your friend. If she is so worried about eating food offered to idols, tell her to look for a label that says "not offered to idols." A meat packing plant that is not kosher or halal may or may not choose to label their products that way. But she has no more right to insist that they do so, any more than the Jew in the preceding example. So she can either avoid eating all products that are not labelled "not offered to idols" or she can take her chances.

[Gob]

So what's your objection to Halal meat being labelled as such, surely that would mean more choice for idol worshippers of that ilk.

[dales]

Pork.............the other white meat.

[Scooter]

If a meat packing plant chooses to market their products as halal, presuming they meet the appropriate criteria, then that is their choice.

They may also choose to prepare their products by halal methods and not advertise them as such. If someone believes they are being harmed by this (by inadvertently eating halal meat), they can look for products labelled "not prepared by halal standards" if any meat packer chooses to label their products that way.

Or, as dales suggests, they can be sure that their meat will be neither kosher nor halal if they eat pork.

[Lord Jim]

Deer hunters don't always kill their game cleanly with the weapon; they often have to slit the throat of the wounded animal. Farm animals are routinely killed this way because you have to 'bleed' the carcass anyway before you dress the meat. ...all a nasty business which is why I'm a vegetarian too,.

All a nasty business, which is why, as a life long suburban boy, I prefer to obtain my meat the way the God of Suburbia intended it...

Carved into pieces presented attractively and appetizingly at the local supermarket or butcher shop.



Mmmm...Prime Rib.....

[Gob]

If a meat packing plant chooses to market their products as halal, presuming they meet the appropriate criteria, then that is their choice.

They may also choose to prepare their products by halal methods and not advertise them as such. If someone believes they are being harmed by this (by inadvertently eating halal meat), they can look for products labelled "not prepared by halal standards" if any meat packer chooses to label their products that way.

Or, as dales suggests, they can be sure that their meat will be neither kosher nor halal if they eat pork.

I don't think anyone is being harmed by this, I just don't see any reason why meat slaughtered in this way cannot be labelled as such so that people can make an informed choice.

I'm still not hearing any reasons why this should not be the case, if it's ok for the Yanks, why not for the Brits?

[Scooter]

Those who label it as such are choosing to market it as such.

Those who do not choose to market it as such do not label it as such, whether it is prepared that way or not.

The informed choice that people can make is to avoid products not specifically labelled as non-kosher or non-halal, if they have an absolute aversion to such products. Which is precisely the same informed choice that Jews and Muslims must make when faced with products that are not specifically labelled as kosher or halal.

[Scooter]

Not dodging at all. If someone wants to inform themselves about how the meat they are eating is slaughtered they are free to do so. Just as they are free to react to the answers they do or do not receive however they wish. Otherwise, there is no health and safety or animal welfare issue that should compel disclosure of ritual slaughter when the producer has not chosen to market it as such.

eta - And this was a reply to a post that said I was dodging. I wish to fucking Christ that posters would fucking MAN UP and not go around deleting their posts after they have been responded to.

[Gob]

That's just dodging the question.

Should they not be informed as to what they are eating

That one you mean?

So what is your objection to meat being labelled as "Halal" Scoot?

[Scooter]

No, not that one. There was a post that appeared after my second to last one that has gone poof.

No objection at all if the producer wants to label their meat halal, just as it happens now. No objection if the producer wants to label it non-halal.

[Gob]

No, not that one. There was a post that appeared after my second to last one that has gone poof.

Who by mate?

No objection at all if the producer wants to label their meat halal, just as it happens now. No objection if the producer wants to label it non-halal.

So, it shouldn't be a government statutory regulation?

[Sean]

What Scooter said. Apart from the fact that this friend and her church appear to be idiots, halal and kosher products (at least here in the States) are clearly marked in the supermarket. If you want to eat in a "Christian-food-only" restaurant, then go and find one the same way Jews and Muslims find kosher and halal restaurants.

I think everyone should know exactly where their food products come from and how they are produced, but to do so in a manner that panders to religious bigotry is unacceptable.

How exactly can you decry religious bigotry after calling my friend an idiot for her beliefs?

This was my last post Scoot... It's still there!

[Scooter]

So, it shouldn't be a government statutory regulation?

There is no legitimate animal welfare concern, which was the pretext used by the article in the OP; that was disproved by reference to scientific research. There is no health and safety concern. What other reason would exist for government regulation?

[Gob]

Government legislates on food labelling for all sorts of reasons, if the public wish this food to be labelled accordingly, what harm does it do?

[Scooter]

Government legislates on food labelling to list ingredients and nutritional value. Are you aware of any reason that kosher or halal beef isn't really beef, or that its nutritional value is different than beef that has been shot through the head?

Government legislation doesn't even require meat producers to disclose the kinds of antibiotics or other drugs used on the animals they slaughter, nor the type of feed they have been given. But somehow, the fact that Muslims might be eating it is some all important tidbit that MUST be disclosed.

What if I am a racist and demand to know whether black people had ever handled the meat I am about to buy, should that also be required disclosure on a label?