Muslim Attitudes

[Lord Jim]

I was going to post this in "Hope this catches on" thread, but there's so much here, I thought it was deserving of its own thread.

I came a cross a link which is a real treasure trove of statistical data for a polling junkie like me about Muslim attitudes on a whole range of subjects in both Muslim and Western countries:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages ... -polls.htm

The website certainly would not be considered pro-Muslim, but every single stat listed is accompanied by a link to the original poll source material, so what ever biases the people who own the site may have are irrelevant.

It should be a real eye opener for the head-in-the-sanders who want to pretend that there there are not deeply troubling attitudes among large percentages of Muslims (in some cases a majority, in others a substantial minority) that are antithetical to western values and that in these kinds of numbers this a problem that is unique to the Muslim faith in the contemporary world. (Note I said "contemporary" ie the world in which we all presumably live. The first person to yell "Crusades!" loses.)

I haven't counted, but it appears there are at least several hundred polling stats listed, organized by category. (Sharia, Assimilation, Terrorism, etc.) Here's a sampling:

ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... in-UK.html

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/ ... 2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children:
http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/04/ ... fanticide/
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 51,00.html

World Public Opinion: 61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)
A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans:
(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)
About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/ ... 09_rpt.pdf

A survey of Muslim women in Paris suburbs found that three-quarters of them wear their masks out of fear - including fear of violence.
http://www.nugget.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3402230

16% of young Muslims in Belgium state terrorism is "acceptable".
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/1275/Islam/art ... baar.dhtml

Populus Poll (2006): 12% of young Muslims in Britain (and 12% overall) believe that suicide attacks against civilians in Britain can be justified. 1 in 4 support suicide attacks against British troops.
http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_02_07_times.pdf
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07 ... h-islamist

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/musli ... df#page=60

Pew Research (2007): Muslim-Americans who identify more strongly with their religion are three times more likely to feel that suicide bombings are justified
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/musli ... df#page=60

ICM: 5% of Muslims in Britain tell pollsters they would not report a planned Islamic terror attack to authorities.
27% do not support the deportation of Islamic extremists preaching violence and hate.
http://www.scotsman.com/?id=1956912005
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07 ... amist.html

Federation of Student Islamic Societies: About 1 in 5 Muslim students in Britain (18%) would not report a fellow Muslim planning a terror attack.
http://www.fosis.org.uk/sac/FullReport.pdf
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07 ... h-islamist

ICM Poll: 25% of British Muslims disagree that a Muslim has an obligation to report terrorists to police.
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/20 ... 0Nov04.asp
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07 ... h-islamist

Pew Research (2013): At least 1 in 4 Muslims do not reject violence against civilians (study did not distinguish between those who believe it is partially justified and never justified).
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/T ... report.pdf

Pew Research (2013): Only 57% of Muslims worldwide disapprove of al-Qaeda. Only 51% disapprove of the Taliban. 13% support both groups and 1 in 4 refuse to say.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/mus ... st-groups/

BBC Radio (2015): 45% of British Muslims agree that clerics preaching violence against the West represent "mainstream Islam".
http://comres.co.uk/polls/bbc-radio-4-t ... slim-poll/

Gallup: 38.6% of Muslims believe 9/11 attacks were justified (7% "fully", 6.5% "mostly", 23.1% "partially")
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... slims.html
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/temp ... p?CID=1154

Pew Research (2011): Large majorities of Muslims believe in 9/11 conspiracy
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/2066/muslim ... ptember-11

Die Presse (2013): 1 in 5 Muslims in Austria believe that anyone wanting to leave Islam should be killed.
http://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2 ... democracy/

Motivaction Survey (2014): 80% of young Dutch Muslims see nothing wrong with Holy War against non-believers. Most verbalized support for pro-Islamic State fighters.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2 ... earch.php/

BBC (2015): Following the Charlie Hebdo attacks, 27% of British Muslims openly support violence against cartoonists. Another 8% would not say, meaning that only 2 of 3 surveyed would say that the killings were not justified.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31293196

ICM Poll: 40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... in-UK.html

GfK NOP: 28% of British Muslims want Britain to be an Islamic state
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLaw ... ForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 68% of British Muslims support the arrest and prosecution of anyone who insults Islam;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/ ... 2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

Pew Research (2013): According to an interpretation of this study, approximately 45% of Sharia supporters surveyed disagreed with the idea that Islamic law should apply only to Muslims.
http://www.pewforum.org/uploadedFiles/T ... report.pdf

WZB Berlin Social Science Center: 65% of Muslims in Europe say Sharia is more important than the law of the country they live in.
http://www.wzb.eu/en/research/migration ... n-comparat
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4092/ ... amentalism

FPO (2014): 43% of Islamic teachers in Austria openly advocate Sharia law over democracy.
http://rt.com/news/208387-austria-islam ... en-muslim/

Policy Exchange: 1 in 4 Muslims in the UK have never heard of the Holocaust;
Only 34% of British Muslims believe the Holocaust ever happened.
http://www.imaginate.uk.com/MCC01_SURVE ... wnload.pdf
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLaw ... ForAll.pdf

Policy Exchange: 51% of British Muslims believe a woman cannot marry a non-Muslim
Only 51% believe a Muslim woman may marry without a guardian's consent
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLaw ... ForAll.pdf

NOP Research: 62% of British Muslims do not believe in the protection of free speech;
Only 3% adopt a "consistently pro-freedom of speech line"
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/ ... 2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

ICM Poll: 58% of British Muslims believe insulting Islam should result in criminal prosecution
http://www.icmresearch.co.uk/reviews/20 ... 0Nov04.asp
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2005/07 ... h-islamist

Pew Global (2006): Only 7% of British Muslims think of themselves as British first (81% say 'Muslim' rather than 'Briton')
http://pewglobal.org/reports/pdf/254.pdf

Policy Exchange (2006): 31% Muslims in Britain identify more with Muslims in other countries than with non-Muslim Brits.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images ... es/246.pdf

Die Welt (2012): 46% of Muslims in Germany hope there will eventually be more Muslims than Christians in Germany.
http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/ ... rheit.html

Ipsos MORI: Muslims are 3 times as likely as Christians to believe that their religion is the only way.
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/r ... /28257.htm

Pew Research (2011): Muslim-Americans four times more likely to say that women should not work outside the home.
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/ ... al-values/

Pew Research (2007): 26% of Muslim-Americans want to be distinct (43% support assimilation)
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/musli ... df#page=60

Pew Research (2011): 20% of Muslim-Americans want to be distinct (56% support assimilation)
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/ ... extremism/

Pew Research (2011): 49% of Muslim-Americans say they are "Muslim first" (26% American first)
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/ ... extremism/

Pew Research (2011): 21% of Muslim-Americans say there is a fair to great amount of support for Islamic extremism in their community.
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/ ... gn-policy/

WZB Berlin Social Science Center: 45% of Muslims in Europe say Jews cannot be trusted.
http://www.wzb.eu/en/research/migration ... n-comparat
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4092/ ... amentalism

Vancouver Sun (2015): 42% of Canadian Muslims agree that Islam is "irreconcilable" with the West.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/193969

This is the sea in which the terrorists swim....

Anyone who believes that you would find anything remotely approaching the percentages of anti-democratic, ant-Western, intolerant, pro-terrorism attitudes prevalent among Muslims in any other religion today..

Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, whatever...

is really smoking the good stuff....

[Lord Jim]

In copying from the link in the OP, I focused mainly on stats that apply to the attitudes of Muslims living in Western Europe and the US.. If you follow the link, you'll find that as bad as these numbers are, the numbers for countries that are predominantly Muslim are even more depressing, when it comes to attitudes about basic human rights that we take for granted, religious intolerance, support and sympathy for terrorists, and misogynist policies and laws.

As we've discussed previously, the attitudes of Muslims in the US are somewhat less hostile then in Europe, (there's much better assimilation here) but even so when you have one in five saying they don't want to assimilate into American culture, that's still very significant and cause for serious concern. (With an American Muslim population of about 5 million, that's a million people.) And another 1 out of 5 who agree that "there is a fair to great amount of support for Islamic extremism in their community."

The only small bright spot I see in this otherwise stark and bleak polling data, is that at leas that 1 in five who say they don't want to assimilate into American culture is an improvement from 1 in four a few years earlier:

Pew Research (2007): 26% of Muslim-Americans want to be distinct (43% support assimilation)
http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/musli ... df#page=60

Pew Research (2011): 20% of Muslim-Americans want to be distinct (56% support assimilation)
http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/ ... extremism/

So at least we seem to be going in the right direction; I doubt the same can be said for Europe.

[Crackpot]

Being disdinct and assimilating are two different things. There are many groups that have maintained a distinct culture and yet have assimilated into our culture.

[Lord Jim]

CP, the poll gave them an option to choose both. (16% did.) Here's how it was worded:

[wesw]

all this to do over a few dozen nutjobs , silly. I don t know all those people are fleeing Libya or why 800,000 children left there homes in Nigeria. I don t know why the kurds yazidis and Christians in Iraq are getting so upset over a few nuts causing trouble.

cripes its just a few nutjobs

[rubato]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/148763/Musli ... lence.aspx

Most Muslim Americans See No Justification for Violence
Muslims Americans more likely than other faith groups to reject attacks on civilians
by Nicole Naurath

ABU DHABI -- Muslim Americans are the staunchest opponents of military attacks on civilians, compared with members of other major religious groups Gallup has studied in the United States. Seventy-eight percent of Muslim Americans say military attacks on civilians are never justified.

military target civilians.gif

These findings are among the many featured in a new report released Tuesday by the Abu Dhabi Gallup Center, Muslim Americans: Faith, Freedom, and the Future, based on Gallup surveys conducted throughout 2010. Building on Gallup's early 2009 report on America's Muslim community, Muslim Americans: A National Portrait, this analysis tracks changes since 2008, delves into current social and political research topics, and provides a series of data-driven policy recommendations.

In sharp contrast with Americans who identify themselves with other faith groups, Muslim Americans are more likely to say military attacks on civilians are never justified (78%) than sometimes justified (21%). Respondents from other faith groups, particularly Mormon Americans, are more likely to say military attacks are sometimes justified than never justified. The opinions of Americans who don't identify themselves with any religion are more in line with those of Muslim Americans, but they are also more divided.

There is wider agreement that attacks on civilians by individuals or small groups are never justified. At least 7 in 10 American adults from all major religious groups agree that these attacks are never justified, but Muslim Americans again are most opposed, with 89% rejecting such attacks.

individual or small group target civilians.gif

In line with their high disapproval of the targeting and killing of civilians by individuals or small groups, 92% of Muslim Americans think that Muslims living in the U.S. do not sympathize with the al Qaeda terrorist organization.

sympathy for al Qaeda.gif

Majorities of Americans from the other major religious groups studied also believe that Muslims in America are not sympathetic to al Qaeda, but there is a notable range of opinion -- from 56% of Protestants to 70% of Jewish Americans. Sizable minorities of U.S. Catholics (33%), Protestants (33%), and Mormons (31%) do not dismiss the possibility that Muslims Americans hold some sympathy for al Qaeda.

In addition to examining U.S. Muslim's political and social views 10 years after Sept. 11, the latest report also looks at their spiritual engagement.

About the Report

Muslim Americans: Faith, Freedom, and the Future is based on a nationally representative study of Muslim American perceptions and the views of other major religious groups in the U.S. The report compares trends on Americans' life evaluations over the past three years as well as probes Muslim and non-Muslim perceptions on issues of national identity, terrorism, foreign policy, religious discrimination, and political participation.

Read the complete report.

For complete data sets or custom research from the more than 150 countries Gallup continually surveys, please contact SocialandEconomicAnalysis@gallup.com or call 202.715.3030.

About the Abu Dhabi Gallup Center

Building on Gallup's seminal work in the field of Muslim studies, the Abu Dhabi Gallup Center offers unmatched research on the attitudes and aspirations of Muslims around the world. Learn more.

Survey Methods

The first study of Muslim Americans was fielded via telephone to Muslim Americans and a nationally representative sample of adults in the U.S. aged 18 and older. The Muslim-American sample was selected from self-identified Muslim Americans who agreed to be recontacted after participating in the Gallup nightly polling. The general population sample included landline as well as cell phone-only respondents. The survey was administered from Feb. 10, 2010-March 11, 2010, and featured a five-call design. Because of the low number of Jewish American respondents in the sample of U.S. adults, an oversample of the Jewish population was performed using recontacts from the Gallup nightly polling. The data were weighted to correct for disproportionalities in probabilities of selection and response propensities. The data were then weighted to targets for age, gender, region, race, ethnicity, and education from the U.S. Census Bureau. Final weights were applied based on self-identified religious affiliation using targets from the Gallup nightly polling. The response rate for the study was 21%.

The second study of Muslim Americans was fielded via telephone to a sample of participants from each of the major religious groups. The sample for this study was selected based on self-identified religious affiliation of those who agreed to be recontacted from the Gallup nightly polling. The study featured a five-call design and had quotas of 200 for each major religious group other than Muslims. A random sample was chosen from eligible respondents of each of the major religious groups other than Muslims, while a census was taken of Muslim-American respondents. The survey was administered from Oct. 1-21, 2010. The data were weighted to correct for disproportionalities in probabilities of selection and response propensities. The data were then weighted to targets for age, gender, region, race, ethnicity, and education from the U.S. Census Bureau. Final weights were applied based on self-identified religious affiliation using targets from the Gallup nightly polling. The response rate for the study was 34%.

Results in the report are based on the aggregation of the two Muslim American polls, yielding a total sample of 2,482 adults, of which 475 self-identified as Muslims. The data in the combined file were reweighted to ensure the data were representative of the U.S. adult population and of the major religious groups. The margin of error is calculated at the 95% confidence level and is adjusted to reflect the design effect. In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.

Muslim American polls.gif

So much for bigots.

yrs,
rubato

[Sue U]

In the 1970s I knew many many Irish-Americans who were strongly sympathetic to the IRA, and more than a few who actively raised money and materiel for their support. They were always hanging around in their own bars playing their own music and keeping up a distinctly different culture. Can't be trusted, obvs.

[Gob]

I don't

[Lord Jim]

In the 1970s I knew many many Irish-Americans who were strongly sympathetic to the IRA, and more than a few who actively raised money and materiel for their support. They were always hanging around in their own bars playing their own music and keeping up a distinctly different culture. Can't be trusted, obvs.

Wow...

That is an "analogy" that fails on so many levels...

[rubato]

And it is exactly apt in so many more ways.


The direct financial support of people in the US funded countless murders in N. Ireland.



yrs,
rubato

[Joe Guy]

Muslim Altitudes...

K2/Godwin Austen Peak 8611 meters
Nanga Parbat 8126 meters
Gasherbrum I/K5 8080 meters
Broad Peak 8051 meters
Gasherbrum II/K4 8035 meters

[Big RR]

Mountains are adherents to particular religions? I do know "let the mountain come to Mohammed" is a hackneyed saying, but I guess anything is possible.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I think they are Orthodox. The Hills are alive with the sound of mujhik

[Big RR]

[Lord Jim]

I am very disinclined to jump down this diversionary rabbit hole, but for starters:

The direct financial support of people in the US funded countless murders in N. Ireland.

Well, no...once again you're wrong...

The total number of people killed during The Troubles by all sides, over 30 years, is quite countable; around 3500:



I don't mean to minimize those losses; they were terrible for all those involved, but frankly 3500 would be a slow week for ISIS...

it is exactly apt in so many more ways.

Dear me, where to begin in showing the differences...

I suppose I'll start with the "glaringly self-evident" and then work down to the far more subtle, "blazingly obvious"...

How much support and sympathy do you suppose the IRA would have received from Irish Americans, if they had knocked down The World Trade Center and murdered 3000 Americans to make their point?

All of the terrorist attacks conducted by the IRA took place in two countries; the UK and Ireland...(Mostly in Northern Ireland)

The Islamo Fascists operate in dozens of countries, all around the globe...

How many foreign fighters did the IRA rally to their cause? How many did they seek to radicalize in the "On-Line Caliphate " to fight for Irish independence by launching attacks in their home countries?

And on and on and on...

The comparison is beyond absurd...

Again, I don't want to trivialize the historical cruelty of the IRA in Northern Ireland, (Or Ian Paisley and his bunch of Unionist bully boys) but compared to the threat represented by global Jihadism, I would suggest that you look at the comparison between The Sun and Mercury in "the whole lotta nothin'" thread in Science and Technology...

[MajGenl.Meade]

Maybe I'm amazed...

How much support and sympathy do you suppose the IRA would have received from Irish Americans, if they had knocked down The World Trade Center and murdered 3000 Americans to make their poi

Well that is quite obvious - thanks for making it clear that it's perfectly OK to support terrorism as long as the terrorists don't do anything in the USA. Got it.

You seem to think (In this as in so many other ways - one in particular) that quantity is the definition of morality. ISIS kills more people in more places THEREFORE a person who gives them money to fund their killings is naughty, naughty, naughty. But if it's only 3,500 people spread over several years, then it's just fine to supply money and arms to the killers. Yes, the contribution to death in those two cases are not even remotely similar.

How many foreign fighters did the IRA rally to their cause?

Ah, so again the numbers separate sponsoring terrorism from just sending a few dollars to a charity? And we'll restrict it to "fighters", will we? Rallying monetary support doesn't count at all then. All those Boston and New York Catholics sending their dollars so that Paddy could make a bomb - their hands are clean because they didn't "fight". Oh yes, clearly there's no responsibility there and it's all so very, very different from some religious group supporting terrorists. Not at all similar that.

The direct financial support of people in the US funded countless murders in N. Ireland

In fact you are wrong and the above statement is (inadvertently) right. The number of murders funded by USians is indeed "countless" - no one knows how many of those 3500 could be identified as directly coming from a gun purchased by USian funding. And of course you conveniently ignore maimings, beatings and terror itself. Those are OK as long as the money's coming from the USA and it only happens in two countries - not an important place like the USA.

Why by your logic anyone who helped the Boston bombers hasn't really done anything at all - they only killed a handful. Oh wait.. that was in the USA so of course it was disgusting and despicable for anyone to have aided them.

If you've been a regular in a pub blown up by the IRA (as I was) or been part of a union team making sure all personnel were cleared from a nine storey building during a bomb threat (as I have), maybe you'd have some credibility on the subject - or maybe like me you'd have some other bias.

[Lord Jim]

But if it's only 3,500 people spread over several years, then it's just fine to supply money and arms to the killers.

Wowsers...

I'm trying to imagine a more inaccurate characterization of what I said, and I just can't do it...

That is a mischaraterization of Rubatoin Dimensions...

Where did I say it was "just fine" to kill 3500 people? In fact if memory serves me correctly, (and since it was just one post ago, it probably does) I could have sworn I said this:

I don't mean to minimize those losses; they were terrible for all those involved

and:

Again, I don't want to trivialize the historical cruelty of the IRA in Northern Ireland

I think that because of this:

If you've been a regular in a pub blown up by the IRA (as I was) or been part of a union team making sure all personnel were cleared from a nine storey building during a bomb threat (as I have)

Understandably, you're not capable of looking at this comparison objectively...

[Lord Jim]

or maybe like me you'd have some other bias.

Oh yes, I've got some biases...

When it comes to stoning to death a woman for having sex with someone they're not married too, I'm biased against that...

Murdering little girls to stop them from learning how to read...

I'm biased against that...

Repealing all of modernity and sending humanity back to a 13th Century type Neo-Dark Ages run by a murderous cult...

I'm waaaay biased against that...

And pretending that no threat to our safety and way of life exists from this murderous cult and its recruits, when clearly it does...

I'm biased against that...

[Lord Jim]

And let me say for the record Meade, that I am absolutely repulsed by, and opposed to any American who provided money for weapons to the IRA, and that they should go to prison for it...

Are we good on that now? Have I been sufficiently clear?

[Sue U]

Jim, I don't have time to respond in-depth today, but you started this thread with the ostensible premise:

This is the sea in which the terrorists swim....

Anyone who believes that you would find anything remotely approaching the percentages of anti-democratic, ant-Western, intolerant, pro-terrorism attitudes prevalent among Muslims in any other religion today..

Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, whatever...

is really smoking the good stuff....

My point is that not so long ago, this was pretty much the same sea for the IRA. From the mid to late 1970s I traveled around the Irish folk music circuit in the Northeast and at many a ceili there was a collection for some charity that was a thinly veiled front for the IRA. To the extent that the so-called "troubles" was a war, you could say it was a sectarian religious conflict between Protestants and Catholics. But war is almost never about religion -- it's almost always about power, money and control of territory, population and resources.