Largest mass shooting in American history

[Econoline]

[MajGenl.Meade]

What on earth kind of gun law would cause an Islamic terrorist to say, "Oh, I can't get a weapon anywhere. I'll just pack it in then".

Get real. This incident has nothing to do with the availability of guns. People like this will always get guns, build bombs and kill people. They manage it in England, they manage it in France, they manage it in Spain, they manage it in Belgium..... all of which have stricter gun laws than the USA

You all are just jumping on a convenient bandwagon to push your own agenda, whether it is relevant to the situation or not.

And your cartoon, Econo, is total bullshit

[Crackpot]

You are confusing organizations with these post hoc declarations. An assault weapon ban or at least a requirement for extensive background checks would do much to hinder these lone wolves (even if they pledge to Isis in the middle of it).

[Guinevere]

That last sentence really opens the cliff for rational debate.....

I don't care, I'm too fucking angry about how little we have done in this country to protect ourselves and our citizens. And the comments above just prove my point.

[Crackpot]

Then your comments only sever to inflame those you disagree with and hinder any chance for a rational solution.

[Guinevere]

You're blaming the lack of gun control on me and those who think like me -- that at a minimum the murder of 20 elementary school kids should have been enough to finally make some progress (not even huge progress, just some incremental changes)? Get real, that's ridiculous and insane and beyond insulting.

We need more people to get angry and do something, not less.

[Guinevere]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... ailyNewsTw


AR-15, the mass murder's best friend....

[RayThom]

BAN THE SALE OF AR-15's.

I'm all for it. However one problem remains, "data shows just over 2,000,000 AK-15s were produced for domestic use by these manufacturers from 2000 to 2010 - the data does not come any more recent than that unfortunately."

Sadly, the AR-15 is here to stay. If you want one badly enough there will always be a black market for someone to sell it to you. And mass shootings will continue.

[Crackpot]

Guin

No I'm blaming the lack of rational discourse on people like you that demonize the opposition. Such rhetoric only serves to whip up the rhetoric of those on the other side who would do the same and services my nothing but to make sure people do everything but come together in order to work out a meaningful solution.

But righteous indignation is so much more desirable than a solution after all both sides can have it without risking compromise.

[Guinevere]

OFFS, I don't demonize, go back and read the legions of posts I've made. That's not how I operate. You should be condemning those who lie about what gun control is, and what it could do, and all those pansy-asses who throw up their hands and claim "we can't" or "it wont make a difference" or some other refusal to actually deal with the problem.

But FWIW, I'm tired of being rational, because it has gotten us EXACTLY ZERO CHANGE, only more deaths.

[rubato]

You can change gun laws all you want, but the fact remains the bad guys will still find a way to have guns.

... ".

Then we can applaud the superior ingenuity of American criminals because in all countries with more restrictive laws they appear unable to do so.

Your opinion contrasted with reality in other countries is a reason to do the experiment, not a reason to do nothing, massacre after massacre.

"There is no reason to look for vaccines diseases will just find another way to kill you."

" There is no reason to test and license drivers, or make cars safer, some people will still cause fatal accidents."


Yrs,rubato

[MajGenl.Meade]

Then we can applaud the superior ingenuity of American criminals because in all countries with more restrictive laws they appear unable to do so.

What kind of hermetic device do you actually live in? Are you going to point out that many of these involved bombs? So what?

Tuesday, March 22, 2016 Brussels Attacks 31
300
ISIS Brussels, Belgium
Friday, November 13, 2015 November Paris Attacks 130
368
ISIS Paris, France
Wednesday, January 07, 2015 Charlie Hebdo Attacks And Hypercacher 12
11
ISIS Paris, France
Saturday, May 24, 2014 Jewish Museum Shooting 4
0
ISIS Brussels, Belgium
Wednesday, July 18, 2012 Burgas Bus Bombing 7
32
Hezbollah Burgas, Bulgaria
Sunday, March 11, 2012 Toulouse And Montauban Shooting 8
0
Al Qaeda / Jund al-Khilafa Toulouse and Montauban, France
Friday, July 22, 2011 Norway Terror Attacks 77
319
Lone Wolf Oslo and Utoya, Norway
Friday, May 01, 2009 Royal Family Assasination Attempt 7
12
Lone Wolf Apeldoorn, Netherlands
Thursday, July 07, 2005 London Underground Attacks 52
700
Al Qaeda London, U.K.
Thursday, March 11, 2004 Madrid Train Bombing 192
2,050
Al Qaeda Madrid, Spain

[dales]

AR-15, the mass murder's best friend....

Not if one wants to do a lot of killing.

The Happy Land fire was an arson fire that killed 87 people trapped in an unlicensed social club named "Happy Land", at 1959 Southern Boulevard in the West Farms section of the Bronx in New York City on March 25, 1990. Most of the victims were young Hondurans celebrating Carnival,[1] largely drawn from members of the local Garifuna American community.[2][3] Unemployed Cuban refugee Julio González, whose former girlfriend was employed at the club, was arrested soon afterward and ultimately convicted of arson and murder.

A few gallons of gasoline and some matches are far more lethal.

Where is the incessant yammering for match and gasoline control?

[rubato]

Then we can applaud the superior ingenuity of American criminals because in all countries with more restrictive laws they appear unable to do so.

What kind of hermetic device do you actually live in? Are you going to point out that many of these involved bombs? So what?

Tuesday, March 22, 2016 Brussels Attacks 31
300
ISIS Brussels, Belgium
Friday, November 13, 2015 November Paris Attacks 130
368
ISIS Paris, France
Wednesday, January 07, 2015 Charlie Hebdo Attacks And Hypercacher 12
11
ISIS Paris, France
Saturday, May 24, 2014 Jewish Museum Shooting 4
0
ISIS Brussels, Belgium
Wednesday, July 18, 2012 Burgas Bus Bombing 7
32
Hezbollah Burgas, Bulgaria
Sunday, March 11, 2012 Toulouse And Montauban Shooting 8
0
Al Qaeda / Jund al-Khilafa Toulouse and Montauban, France
Friday, July 22, 2011 Norway Terror Attacks 77
319
Lone Wolf Oslo and Utoya, Norway
Friday, May 01, 2009 Royal Family Assasination Attempt 7
12
Lone Wolf Apeldoorn, Netherlands
Thursday, July 07, 2005 London Underground Attacks 52
700
Al Qaeda London, U.K.
Thursday, March 11, 2004 Madrid Train Bombing 192
2,050
Al Qaeda Madrid, Spain

All of those countries have similar crime rates but lower murder rates because of effective gun regulations.

I am looking at the big picture of deaths by gun violence, not the tiny little subset of terrorism. And even when terrorist attacks with bombs are included their murder rates are low.

Gun control works. We should do it.

But speaking of bombs, Timothy mcVeigh killed 168 and injured 600 with an anfo bomb. We responded by regulating the sale of ammonium nitrate and producing an alternative fertilizer, ammonium sulfate, which could not be made into a bomb. We didn't do nothing. We weren't weak little jackass idiots who insist on making the same mistakes over and over again.


Yrs,
Rubato

[rubato]

AR-15, the mass murder's best friend....

Not if one wants to do a lot of killing.

The Happy Land fire was an arson fire that killed 87 people trapped in an unlicensed social club named "Happy Land", at 1959 Southern Boulevard in the West Farms section of the Bronx in New York City on March 25, 1990. Most of the victims were young Hondurans celebrating Carnival,[1] largely drawn from members of the local Garifuna American community.[2][3] Unemployed Cuban refugee Julio González, whose former girlfriend was employed at the club, was arrested soon afterward and ultimately convicted of arson and murder.

A few gallons of gasoline and some matches are far more lethal.

Where is the incessant yammering for match and gasoline control?

If we had 100,000 injuries, 11,000 homicides, 21,000 suicides and 500 accidental deaths per year by arson with gasoline I think we would be smart enough to regulate the sales and handling of gasoline differently.



Yrs,
Rubato

[MajGenl.Meade]

Auto fatalities:

Year: 2013
Number: 32,719

This does not mean that gun regulation is not worthy. But it does show an interesting bias

[rubato]

Auto fatalities:

Year: 2013
Number: 32,719

This does not mean that gun regulation is not worthy. But it does show an interesting bias

The only bias is against any regulation of guns. The number of auto fatalities is as LOW as it is because we have worked constantly to regulate car design and construction, licensing, roadway design and construction, traffic enforcement, DUI, &c. We have not been as deliberately stupid as we are about guns.

Auto fatalities per 100 million miles driven are a third what they were in 1975.


Yrs,
Rubato

[MajGenl.Meade]

Well, that's all right then.

Maybe the numbers of gun deaths are as LOW as they are because of the plethora of regulations passed since 1963? Naaah!

Also, in the present case, didn't the perp have a G license as a security dude and therefore no laws would have prevented him from having gunz? Oh, wait - yes he did!

The security officer status in Florida has various levels–classes “D,” “M,” or “MB,” among others. And according to the FDACS website, an individual with a class “D,” “M,” or “MB” security license must also get a Statewide Firearms License (class “G”). The firearms license allows the security licensee to carry two guns on his person when performing security duties in the state.

Background checks are required for both the Security Officer license and the Statewide Firearms License. Those checks include thorough criminal checks, too. Mateen would have had to pass such checks to acquire his licenses and possess firearms.

What the heck has THIS CASE to do with firearms control in the general sense?

[rubato]

Well, that's all right then.

Maybe the numbers of gun deaths are as LOW as they are because of the plethora of regulations passed since 1963? Naaah!


... "

What plethora of regulations? If anything they are less regulated now. More places allow open carry and concealed weapon permits are easier to get. I can get a handgun in two weeks just like I could back in1991. I can't get a 15 round magazine in calif. Anymore.

And since when are security guards guaranteed the ability to buy an m-16?

You worship guns and treat them like sacred objects.

Yrs,
Rubato

[dales]

My son-in-law is well-stocked in the firearms dept.

He keeps them in safe bolted to the floor.

I'm armed.

So is my other son-in-law.

We as an extended family own gunz up the wazoo!