oldr_n_wsr's alcoholic adventure

[BoSoxGal]

Maybe you could volunteer someplace one day each week, or more? A soup kitchen is a great place to spend a few hours being useful and giving good cheer to others, which tends to cultivate good cheer in us. Unemployment is very, very demoralizing - I've been there and completely understand; anything you can find that makes you feel useful to others is going to help with your blue funk.

Also, have you considered getting housemates? It's terribly difficult for young people - and even many not-so-young people - to afford to live alone these days, and lots of people are looking to intentional community building / co-housing to make it work; I'm sure that's very true in your area as I've heard Seattle and the surrounding area is very expensive.

Obviously it means giving up some privacy in the common areas of your home, but it could be a help with income shortfall AND with forcing yourself to be a bit more social. Obviously be careful in vetting potential roomies (you can access public records for criminal and credit issues, and get & check references) and yes, there will be some aggravation - but that's true of people living in family units, too. I rented rooms in my house before having to leave Montana, and met a couple of nice people that way - it forced me outside my comfort zone which can be very good for introverts.

I'm not sure what to say about the other things you've mentioned; I'm not a terribly lonely person because I love to read and watch videos and generally enjoy my own company. I've been regretting a love I 'lost' a very long time ago and which I believe was my best chance for traditional marriage/family; but recently I realized if I'd taken that path I'd likely still be married to a Trumpanzee today, with Trumpanzee children and 26 years of football watching under my belt. I doubt I could ever have become a Trump fan myself, I would likely have been a long-suffering, silenced liberal like my mother was . . . anyway I know I don't regret the life of the mind that my education affords me, I only regret the shackles of student loan debt and that's just the sad result of the point in time in which I was born.

Honestly when it comes to relationships - I've had several since the 'one true love' and they were all nice guys who wanted to commit to me, but I balked at the starting gate every time - because even nice guys seem to want things more their way. I'm not saying this to have all the married/committed people feel the need to be defensive, but honestly, I've not seen but a couple of marriages I would envy on any level - seems like someone's always eating a lot of shit, or both people are. I'm not averse to companionship, but I'd just as soon have it with an abundance of freedom and independence and lots of folks are threatened by that. Funny thing is I'm super loyal when in love, but just need my space - lots of men can't deal with that, so I just fly solo and will do so until I bump into a nice guy who doesn't feel compelled to clip my wings.

My advice is to get out of your head as much as possible - oldr's right, it's a dangerous place to be for too long! Read, write, listen to music, dance alone - its great exercise! Meditate or take up yoga. Realize that we are ALL alone, and the most important relationship of your entire life is the one with yourself - LOVE YOURSELF!

One more thing: cats are ok, but the journey of life is best traveled with a dog, truly. Consider adopting one from the shelter, an older dog can be a wonderful low-key companion who makes you get out of bed to greet the morning every day, and will always be happy to go on your walks, for a row, or for a ride!

And finally, if you love kids and wish you'd had them, consider fostering one or more - even if just as a respite or short term placement.

[Econoline]

Volunteering would be a great idea; I was about to suggest it myself. And there are plenty of other possibilities other than soup kitchens: Habitat for Humanity, Meals on Wheels, schools, conservation groups, even political groups. If you look around I'm sure you could find one that fits with your interests, abilities and personality.



P.S. BSG - what many dog lovers (and *ALL* dogs!) don't get is that not everyone is a dog person...

[BoSoxGal]

P.S. BSG - what many dog lovers (and *ALL* dogs!) don't get is that not everyone is a dog person...

True dat - but I've know a number of people who didn't think they were until they got a dog.

[datsunaholic]

I'll reiterate that I am not a dog person. I am terrified of dogs, to an extent. Sure, I've met a few nice ones. But I have too much bad history.

Can't have roommates. I live in a 1 bd/1 bath 800 sqft house out in the sticks.

I already volunteer twice a week at a museum, working in the engine shop. Been doing that since 2003. Last time I missed a volunteer day was to go to a concert back in November.

Don't want kids. Never have. Don't want to be responsible for another person. It's why I never want to be a manager at work. I am a worker, not a leader.

[oldr_n_wsr]

You might want to "regiment" your days. Get up, make your bed. Eat breakfast. Go for the walk. eat lunch, take that row. Do these things every day. You say things went better for you in the service where your life was controlled, well pretend you are bakc in the service and set up your daily regiment and keep to it.
We tell newly "dry" alcoholics this to teach discipline and to get a sense of "regular" life. Work out a daily/weekly schedule and stick to it.
Stay on your meds, your couseling and your volunteering and work a personal schedule around them.
As others have said, we care so keep us posted. You are not alone. PM me if you want to talk.

[BoSoxGal]

I'll reiterate that I am not a dog person. I am terrified of dogs, to an extent. Sure, I've met a few nice ones. But I have too much bad history.

Can't have roommates. I live in a 1 bd/1 bath 800 sqft house out in the sticks.

I already volunteer twice a week at a museum, working in the engine shop. Been doing that since 2003. Last time I missed a volunteer day was to go to a concert back in November.

Don't want kids. Never have. Don't want to be responsible for another person. It's why I never want to be a manager at work. I am a worker, not a leader.

Apologies, I must have missed where you said you didn't like dogs.

Sorry all of my other suggestions weren't helpful, either.

[datsunaholic]

No need to apologize; you said nothing hurtful. They could be good suggestions to someone in a different situation than I happen to have.


I haven't given up on counseling, I just haven't found it to have helped my state of mind. The counselor is still trying to figure out who I am. Then it's a matter of trying to figure out how I can make the necessary changes. Right now I don't see the path. Maybe I need to let something go, maybe I need to let something in. I don't know. I know I get overly attached, but letting go of attachments also causes me distress. If I let them fade away it doesn't hurt as much. But I've let so many friendships fade away, it's as if I've really never had any to begin with. I don't have any close friends anymore, and unless you count Facebook friends I might see in person once a decade, none within 10 years either way of my own age. They're either 15 years+ younger or 10 years + older, with most closer to 20 years +. Mostly millenials starting out, or folks getting ready for or already into retirement. Perhaps it was because I was born right in the middle of the Gen X baby bust, but mostly it's because people my age are married and/or have kids college age or younger so that's where their energy, focus, and time is spent. I don't, and hence cannot relate.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Yet another young person from the rooms died this past weekend. OD'd. His name was Luke and I talked with him last wednesday. He passed on Saturday. He said the three words that seem to be the end of anyone's sobriety, "I got this".
[rant]The program is not something you "get", it is something you "do". I can't press this enough to newcomers/relapsers/anyone trying to get and remain sober.

Hate this $#!+
[/rant]

[wesw]

the bible is full of wisdom..., and horror...., and hope.

what the hell do you have to lose?

wes

[datsunaholic]

So, update.

While I'm still going to the counselling sessions, I've found they seem to leave me in a worse state of mind than before I go in. Part of the problem is I think the meds aren't working the intended way- the doc said they are supposed to artificially bring up my mood from the sad, depressed state I've been in but they seem to be causing more pronounced mood swings- triggers either way cause a hard shift from the dull throb of sameness to either elation or despair. Last 2 visits she has suggesting switching to a different medication, and I think I'll take her up on that next visit.

The counselor has tried a couple approaches- she has tried to get me to apply at Worksource, but I can't get over the anxiety. I did create an online account but that's as far as I got. For as task she wanted me to spend 20 minutes or so each night writing down my thoughts. That has had the effect of some times making it easier to get to sleep- a positive thing- but the writings are so depressing. There have been some other things that have been much harder to do. She said she wanted me to stop messaging or texting my 22 year old friend, as she felt I was treating her as a girlfriend rather than a "friend" friend. I see the point, and the fact that I couldn't follow through (especially after she got a couple new piercings and started working at at night club, all of which I was curious about). To make it more difficult she showed up at the museum I volunteer at and we ended up talking for over 2 hours. So trying to cut off communication is heart-wrenching, being I have so few friends as it is. But I've now managed a week of no texts with her, and my counselor thought that was a good start. And I hate that. Of course, I didn't do that without shifting to someone else. So instead of the 22 year old I've been messaging a woman I went to High School with, who is going through an extremely rough time right now (to the point that her Mom is basically watching her 24/7). We talked about trying to meet up next time she is in the area, when in fact she WAS in the area. For 4 days she was "leaving for LA tomorrow". But I don't know.

I'm confused by my own behavior. Sometimes I feel as a good portions of my inhibitions are muted. Other times the anxiety sets in. My friend getting new piercings (that her dad is still livid about) and talking about getting a tattoo got ME reconsidering getting a tattoo. Then I found out my Sister got a new, fairly large tattoo for her 41st birthday, and my Mom told me she was thinking of getting a small one for her 70th. The whole idea had me giddy for 2 days- not me getting one, but my Mom. Of course that didn't last, and I slowly slipped back into melancholy.

I feel abandoned by friends (what few I have) and even my family pretty much won't contact me. Oh, they'll talk if I call them, but no one calls me. They say they'd like my help, but then find someone else to do so. I'm so f'ing lonely, and even things I like to do seem empty. I've gone exploring abandoned railroad trestles, but what I see are photo opportunities lost by the lack of a good photographic subject. Although some of the lonely landscape shots I took came out pretty good for a phone camera. There's places I'd like to explore if it wasn't trespassing (abandoned buildings, etc. I have an affinity for the decay of the creations of humanity). I've gone rowing for exercise, and I've scoped out a few lakes I might try out once I get an access pass (it's a State pass that allows access to State Parks, Dept of Fish & Wildlife sites, and Dept of Natural Resources sites) but I keep putting THAT off as well.

But the depression still hurts, and hurts bad. One of the reasons I was so hesitant to use medication was the lack of anyone to catch me if things were to go sideways. As such, I asked friends and family to keep tabs in case they saw drastic mood changes. And after I asked, everyone either continued ignoring or stopped talking to me. Maybe it's the meds that made me notice it more, or maybe they just think that if I make a Facebook post a couple times a week, that's the same as me "updating".

The biggest problem I have right now is a total lack of motivation. Because I have no structured, routine daily schedule, I have no reason to get up in the morning. Unless i have somewhere to be. The problem is, just because I WANT to do something, doesn't mean I WILL do something. I need that external motivation that is completely lacking in my life. When I was working, and I was given a realistic goal, I worked well and generally got the job done. But when told to set my own goals, I floundered. I cannot schedule, because unless it's something I've done over and over again, I can't estimate how long something will take. And having no goals and no motivation really doesn't bode well when seeking employment. Employers all advertise that they're looking for self-reliant self-starters. I'm not that person. Give me a task, I'll do it. Don't ask me to come up with a task to do, because at best I'll just grab what they call the "low hanging fruit".

[Gob]

While I'm still going to the counselling sessions, I've found they seem to leave me in a worse state of mind than before I go in. Part of the problem is I think the meds aren't working the intended way- the doc said they are supposed to artificially bring up my mood from the sad, depressed state I've been in but they seem to be causing more pronounced mood swings- triggers either way cause a hard shift from the dull throb of sameness to either elation or despair. Last 2 visits she has suggesting switching to a different medication, and I think I'll take her up on that next visit.

That's quite possible, some anti-Ds can elevate the tendency to mood swings, esp if there's a bi-polar element to your condition.

[BoSoxGal]

If it's at all possible, please get evaluated by a very good psychiatrist or psychologist with expertise in psychopharmacology and don't just rely on family doctor or average therapist for this. My research (dealing with my own diagnosed recurrent major depression for 20+ years, as well as several dozen clients with mental health issues) indicates that only a small percentage of Americans are properly diagnosed AND properly medicated. By my calculations you've at most been on an SSRI for 6-7 weeks? It takes a while to achieve full efficacy, and dosage should be adjusted before a whole new med is tried and this one scrapped, unless you're having serious adverse side effects. Gob's right that if you have bipolar tendencies that would be very relevant to what medication is going to work for you, versus possibly being very damaging to your well being. If you lack confidence in your treatment there is never a better time to follow the old adage to get a second opinion. Your local chapter of NAMI can point you in the direction of mental health professionals in your area who have positive track records with patients.

I know how hard this is when you're in the fog of depression, but you need to be an advocate for yourself. There are lots of docs out there handing out SSRI scrips with very little knowledge beyond sales pitches from Big Pharma reps and brief lectures at the occasional conference. By this point I've read dozens of books on depression written by psychologists and psychiatrists who specialize in it, and I've found myself on more than one occasion educating my docs, so just remember that MD doesn't bestow infallibility.

[Joe Guy]

What I know about meds for depression is a lot of people end up trying a couple different types before finding the one that works for them. Also, it is very important that it be prescribed by a psychiatrist and therapy needs to be part of the process.

That's all I have to say on the subject.

[datsunaholic]

My primary care physician is very young- not even 30 yet, I suspect. The AD medication she prescribed is a generic, with something like a $4 a month retail. So I doubt she's pushing anything "big pharma".

Whether or not a psychiatrist would be even available I don't know. I'm in money-loss mode, with only $300 a month right now. The State mental health care system is pretty much screwed up here, so the counseling sessions are maybe all that's available- I don't know.

[BoSoxGal]

If you're on the $4/mo. then it's probably fluoxetine (Prozac) or another older formulary SSRI. Prozac does tend to exacerbate any bipolar tendencies.

When I made the comment about the Big Pharma reps my point is that many family docs aren't super knowledgeable in this area, not necessarily that they're always pushing the newest drug.

Again, consider reaching out to NAMI in your area - by phone or online. There are very likely sliding scale mental health resources in your area that you could access. I'm not suggesting you should chuck what you're doing but just offering suggestions that might help you achieve peace of mind sooner than later. Your post sounded profoundly depressed, still. I've been there & empathize. Please hang in.

[datsunaholic]

It's Citalopram, generic form of Celexa. My doc wants to switch me to Bupropion (Wellbutrin or Zyban), which is an NDRI instead of an SSRI. The problem I have with that is it's side effect of increased risk for epileptic seizures. While I've never had epilepsy, I do have an uncontrolled tic that happens without warning, and it feels almost like a whole-body electric shock. Sometimes I go months without it, sometimes it happens several times a day. So it's a concern. I may ask about Mirtazapine instead, but as you say it would be better if a psychiatrist was involved rather than simply going through only my PCP. I have a follow up on the 14th so I'll ask those questions then.

[RayThom]

Dats, I don't have a lot to add. Stay the course, change up your meds as best and as affordable as possible, and get one thing straight above all -- the love of a good woman, or any woman for that matter, is not going to exorcise your demons until you get yourself on the right track.

Learn how to be 'alone' without being 'lonely.' (For the human species mating for life is a social construct not a natural fact.) Not one woman in the world in all of history has ever been able to fix a man permanently. In the short term, maybe, but never forever. Those changes come from within and a clear mind is necessary to achieve your moment of clarity.

Here's an absolute -- you'll be loveless until you learn to love yourself. Good luck.

[BoSoxGal]

That's very good advice, RT.

Also in your journey in addition to exercise please consider incorporating mindfulness - many studies are showing it to be as effective as CBT & meds for long term management of depression. Obviously is also helps with anxiety & stress, both of which are linked to depression. Hit your local library and check out books by Thich Nhat Hanh, Pema Chodron or the Dalai Lama.

[datsunaholic]

I'm not sure I agree with Ray. Sure, "Love thyself" is important and without that there's no foundation for a good life. And I'm aware that fixing that is key, but the problem is I have no idea how to fix it.

But trying to remain solitary? I've tried that for 25 years. It's been less of an issue in the past because when I was gainfully employed I had some form of interaction at least 5 days a week. But now, there are some weeks I don't talk to anyone in person for 4 days. Even a 5-minute conversation with my neighbor helps. So the answer is to go out and socialize more? Easier said than done, because I have a terrible amount of social anxiety. Solving that could go a long way in helping the other problems, but I haven't found the key yet.

Last night hit a low as bad as it has been, as low as it was in January. Somehow I pulled myself out of it, basically by sitting down and sorting all my loose change. Well, now I know I have a couple hundred dollars in inconveniently heavy coinage.

[BoSoxGal]

If you need someone to chat with, send me a message and I'll send you my info to chat online or whatever. I'm not much of a 'hot mess' these days except regarding physical health at times, but I'm actually a decent listener. I can tell you lots of stories about people I know who are hot messes, and about my earlier years of hot mess-ness, lol!