"Mass Casualty" High School Shooting In Florida...

[RayThom]

... I don ‘t see most of the people here fighting the fascist in a real war unless someone is holding a fun to their head.

That doesn't sound like much of a threat.

[Bicycle Bill]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

You're quoting verbiage that hasn't changed in over 200 years, when the most advanced, most lethal weapon available was a cannon firing grapeshot.  America also did not have a standing professional army at that time; the various state and local militias *were* the army... when they could be bothered to show up.

The soldiers of the Continental Army were not professionals. Many were men who were in their local militias which would be called into service for 30 or 60 days or until whatever problem was solved. They treated the “War” the same way they treated their militia unit.

Up to 25% of the men who served were at some point considered to have been deserters. That did not seem to affect their later pensions or qualifications for bounty land.
— https://nativeheritageproject.com/2012/ ... onary-war/

In the Revolutionary War, desertion depleted both the state militias and the Continental army after such reverses as the British seizures of New York City and Philadelphia; at spring planting or fall harvesting times, when farmer‐soldiers returned to their fields; and as veterans deserted in order to reenlist, seeking the increased bounties of cash or land that the states offered new enlistees. Widespread desertion, even in the midst of battle, plagued the military during the setbacks of the War of 1812. In the Mexican War, 6,825 men, or nearly 7 percent of the army, deserted; and one unit of the Mexican Army, the San Patricio Artillery Battalion, was composed of American deserters.
— https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sci ... /desertion

Things have changed over the past two centuries.  We *DO* have a large, well-trained, well-armed, standing professional army (and navy, and air force) now, and the only time someone uses a single-shot smooth-bore musket (the 'assault weapon' of its time, back in 1787 when the Second Amendment was created and ratified) these days is in historical reenactments.  It's high time people get off this kick that a militia or an Old West-style posse of well-intentioned citizens is going to be the source of our salvation.

-"BB"-

[Scooter]

The village idiot watched Red Dawn and thought it was a documentary.

[Econoline]

I wish someone were holding a fun to my head!

[Econoline]

• • A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  
  Look at the second amendment, militia refers to the people.

Given how terse is the wording of that amendment, that is not an unreasonable interpretation...and (more importantly) the SCOTUS agrees. I don't think anything can change that other than another amendment to the US Constitution for the purpose of clarifying the language in the existing 2nd Amendment.

However...(from your Wikipedia quote)

• The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that the right belongs to individuals, while also ruling that the right is not unlimited and does not prohibit all regulation of either firearms or similar devices.

I think it's about damn time for us to get working on that first, "well regulated", part of the amendment, and to stop ignoring it.

[Scooter]

Do you think it ever occurred to him that he hadn't thought this analogy through very well?

Cruz: Dems are 'the party of Lisa Simpson'

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) compared the Democrats to know-it-all cartoon character Lisa Simpson in a Thursday appearance at the Conservative Political Action Conference.

"The Democrats are the party of Lisa Simpson and Republicans are happily the party of Homer, Bart, Maggie and Marge," Cruz said, referring to the other Simpson family members on the long-running cartoon show "The Simpsons."

Cruz, who often mentions the television show, made the joke after his interviewer, The Federalist publisher Ben Domenech, likened the gun control debate to an episode of "The Simpsons."

Domenech mentioned how, in one episode, Homer Simpsons cites Second Amendment protections for guns used for hunting or protection. In response, Lisa Simpson argues that the Second Amendment is a relic of earlier times.

Cruz went on to push back against those who want to enact further gun control in the wake of last week's mass shooting at a Florida high school. Instead, Cruz argued for stricter enforcement of current laws and a tougher line against violent criminals.

The clip in question:

[Econoline]

[Scooter]

[Scooter]

[Burning Petard]

"After Columbine over 10,000 school police officers were hired just in case a school shooting happened. Two decades later, they haven't stopped a *single* school shooting. Instead they've arrested over 1 million kids, mostly students of color, for routine behavior violations."

I saw it on the internet, so it must be true, but it reads pretty good to me.

snailgate

[Gob]

[Bicycle Bill]

And even before something like this could happen, Trump wants to have 'armed teachers' exchanging fire with an active shooter, with God only knows how many possible 'innocent bystanders' in situ to be used as human shields, hostages, or merely caught in the crossfire.

He must have watched "The Incredibles" and thought IT was a documentary.

-"BB"-

[Crackpot]

And then all you have to do is disarm a teacher for a real spur of the moment school shooting. Or at least the creation of “suicide by teacher”

[Lord Jim]

Looks like they've got some serious training and management issues in the Broward County Sheriff's department:

Instead of rushing in, several Broward sheriff’s deputies waited outside Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School while a killer gunned down schoolchildren, according to other officers on the scene.


The Sheriff’s Office is investigating the claims from Coral Springs cops, Sheriff Scott Israel told the South Florida Sun Sentinel on Friday.

The allegations emerged a day after another deputy, assigned to guard the school, resigned under fire, also for failing to enter the building during the shooting.

In all, at least three deputies waited outside, including School Resource Officer Scot Peterson, police sources told the Sun Sentinel.

The allegations add to a series of failures that have come to light since 19-year-old shooter Nikolas Cruz killed 17 people and wounded 16.

Two additional deputies are being investigated over whether they mishandled warnings about Cruz in the months before the shooting; the FBI has admitted it failed to investigate similar claims; and the Florida Department of Children & Families, which looked into concerns about Cruz, concluded that he was no risk to himself or others.

Coral Springs Mayor Skip Campbell said the city wants answers to the allegations. If proven true, “it not only makes me angry, it makes me furious,” he said.

Israel said three Coral Springs officers said one or more sheriff’s deputies did not go into the school building when they should have, and their concerns were relayed to the Sheriff’s Office by the Coral Springs police chief.

He said the Sheriff’s Office plans to interview the Coral Springs officers who lodged the complaint.

“If our investigation shows that our deputies made no mistakes or did things right, or it’s not corroborated, there will be no issue,” Israel said.

“If we find out, as we did with Peterson, that our deputies made mistakes and didn’t go in, I’ll handle it like I always have. I’ll handle any violations of policy or procedures or whatever accordingly.”

At a news conference Thursday, Israel said Peterson should have “went in. Addressed the killer. Killed the killer.” Video footage showed Peterson did none of that, Israel said.

The sheriff did not say when the Coral Springs police made their allegations. He did not bring it up at his televised news conference Thursday.

“We will do an accurate, meticulous investigation,” Israel said.

Asked how he feels about such an accusation being leveled against his deputies — by other cops no less — the sheriff did not say he was shaken by the thought.

“Being in police work as long as I have, I’ve seen allegations that end up being accurate and allegations that end up being inaccurate,” he said. “I don’t really have an opinion on allegations. I deal with facts, not allegations. We’ll want to see where the facts are and we’ll go from there.”

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/browa ... story.html

[RayThom]

Can I shoot 'em now?

[BoSoxGal]

As I recall, the law enforcement first responders to Columbine didn’t go charging in either - in fact, I’m pretty sure it’s standard protocol for responders NOT to charge into an active shooter situation without first assessing the threat and waiting on backup. He was only firing for 7 minutes, as I understand it. I’m not usually the one to defend cops, but I’m really very angry about all these attacks on the Broward County deputies, especially Deputy Peterson, who has been threatened and reviled all over the Internet - yet he did exactly as his training would’ve taught him, WAITED FOR BACKUP. If he was my father or brother or husband, I wouldn’t want him running up to confront an AR-15 with a handgun, he would simply have made the death toll 18 rather than 17.

This is all NRA and gun nut driven distraction from the real problem, easily available semiautomatic assault weapons of war!

https://www.npr.org/2012/07/21/15715427 ... -shootings

In this NPR interview from 2012, a law enforcement officer discusses changes to response since Columbine. He mentions stronger weaponry and other enhancements that officers carry now - well, Deputy Peterson the school resource officer didn’t have any of that heavier armament, he had a handgun. Did he even have a bulletproof vest on? And even if he did - to run toward an AR-15 with a handgun? That’s suicide.

Fuck all the Monday morning quarterbacking about what those deputies should’ve done.

[RayThom]

... Fuck all the Monday morning quarterbacking about what those deputies should’ve done.

BSG, he was the "designated, onsite, school resource officer." His duty is to jump into the fray without the need of coordination from his superiors. That's what was expected, instead, he soiled his underwear.

He gets an "F" on his report card... and that "F' stands for fuck the students. I'm sorry but I can't justify this massacre as easily as you have.

[Scooter]

I would love to see a police training manual that says officers are required to undertake suicide missions that have no reasonable prospect of saving any lives, and may in fact add to the number of victims.

And as I understand it, there may have been four Broward County officers (whether including the SRO or not IDK) who remained outside the school while the shootings were in progress. Clearly they collectively made a judgment not to enter that may have had something to do with not believing that they could take down the shooter without exacerbating the body count of students and/or themselves.

Jesus H. Fucking Christ, there was a fucking trained SWAT team at the Pulse Nightclub and they ended killing or wounding many of the victims themselves in their attempts to get the shooter, and you're expecting one guy with a handgun to make the decision to potentially put a few bullets in some kids, and yes, get killed himself, in what very well could have been a completely futile attempt to get the shooter.

You've watched far too many Bruce Willis and Arnold Schwarzenegger movies for your own good.

[Burning Petard]

Monday morning quarterbacking indeed, and for most of us here, not even a clue about what the playbook looked like.

As Ray says, this was a school resource officer. BUT I have no idea what his job description/assigned duties actually were.

Without that data, this thread has become just more fake news and fact-less conspiracy theories.

snailgate

[RayThom]

Monday morning quarterbacking indeed, and for most of us here, not even a clue about what the playbook looked like... As Ray says, this was a school resource officer. BUT I have no idea what his job description/assigned duties actually were... Without that data, this thread has become just more fake news and fact-less conspiracy theories.
snailgate

sg, I can't argue with your assessment here but to apparently do nothing except confer by radio with his superiors, and maybe strategizing with the principle, I feel this SRO failed in his expected and/or assumed duties. I sense an extreme lack of courage was displayed.

Well at least he had the courage to quit the force. This event obviously drove home the fact that he was woefully unprepared to handle such adversity.