Newbie Report
Re: Newbie Report
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
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Re: Newbie Report
I scanned the user list for people with zero posts to see if I could find another friend like Robin to go look for. The only familiar name I found was Snailgate. He’s posted that he needed to change his handle here, for some undefined reason. I hope that being on that list isn’t what prevented him from registering with his old name, which would affect Robin. To speculate even more, I suggest that list includes names from other now extinct sites, for people who never attempted to register here.
Re: Newbie Report
This, this, this.Sue U wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:06 pmI have stayed out of this whole kerfuffle largely because I think adults in general can choose where they want to be and can figure out how to behave themselves in normal social interactions, whether we're talking about a BBS or IRL. Here, some people get along well with others, some don't, some have particular betes noir and some just like to be assholes periodically. We fight, we agree, we argue, sometimes we go too far, but everyone who chooses to be here has a place, and we are all pretty accepting of that. Only truly egregious and endangering behavior will get someone banned from this site; as XKA says, we don't have rules but we do have conventions. I like what BSG said in another thread:
Methuselah, let me try to explain -- as noted above, this place is an ongoing conversation among friends, most of whom have been engaged in the conversation for going on decades. Like friends who are often another form of family, we also squabble. Sometimes its nasty, sometimes its petty, usually it blows over (but not always, some feuds never end). But we have our way of doing things - conventions - as also mentioned in posts above. So you have come in and elbowed your way into the conversation. OK, that's fine - we allow new members. But the vast majority of your posts are not joining the ongoing conversations, but telling us we are using our voices and hands wrong, and is irritating and condescending as hell. Please stop it, and just join in the conversation. Engineer or not (and I grew up in a family chock full of 'em) I bet you have more to contribute than to tell us how this board should be run.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
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Re: Newbie Report
[Deleted]
Last edited by Methuselah on Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Newbie Report
Guin, I'm glad you are talking to me, even after you alluded to bad behavior on my part in earlier posts. (I think that was you.)
The angle I’m coming from here is that I am a student of software. The software on this site is excellent. My perception is that the membership of the site is in a long-term decline. That is usually a signal of imminent death for a site. I'd miss it, and some others might too. Can anyone post membership sizes for the last 5 years?
I'm encouraging use of the software's capabilities to support a recruitment campaign for newbies. Some of the documentation needs extensions, and other parts that are excellent (FAQs) need to be pointed out to Newbies and others. Some installation-caused errors are undetected, and causes behavior that will puzzle newbies, especially when they need to be approved after registering.
A source for finding Newbies is the member list. Some data there is unreliable, such as identifying Robin as an existing user. I suspect that some of it came from extinct sites. What’s really needed is a source for recruiting younger people. I’d ask my granddaughter to join if I thought my antagonists would leave her alone. She is a young mother who uses her married name, so my antagonists may not be able to tie me to her. I’m at a loss for another place to recruit for young newbies. There are a lot of grandmothers here, I’d guess, that might give her more advice then she wants. The grandmas could recruit grandkids, though.
If I’ve misjudged the desires of the users here to keep this place going if enough of you let me know I’ll ride off to another place for my hobby.
Incidentally, Guin, if you have a list of my past sins please don’t post it in plain sight, my fragile ego couldn’t handle it. Send it in a PM if you think I need that.
One of the most adept detectives here in finding data on others is the late RayThom. We were antagonists. I never posted my name or email address, but somehow, he found pictures of me that he posted on an earlier version of this site. One that was particularly flattering was me in a racing shell with 8 other guys. Feel free to post anything like that. Thuse.
PS: RayThom gave me the handle Meth. I have bad thoughts of him every time I see it.
The angle I’m coming from here is that I am a student of software. The software on this site is excellent. My perception is that the membership of the site is in a long-term decline. That is usually a signal of imminent death for a site. I'd miss it, and some others might too. Can anyone post membership sizes for the last 5 years?
I'm encouraging use of the software's capabilities to support a recruitment campaign for newbies. Some of the documentation needs extensions, and other parts that are excellent (FAQs) need to be pointed out to Newbies and others. Some installation-caused errors are undetected, and causes behavior that will puzzle newbies, especially when they need to be approved after registering.
A source for finding Newbies is the member list. Some data there is unreliable, such as identifying Robin as an existing user. I suspect that some of it came from extinct sites. What’s really needed is a source for recruiting younger people. I’d ask my granddaughter to join if I thought my antagonists would leave her alone. She is a young mother who uses her married name, so my antagonists may not be able to tie me to her. I’m at a loss for another place to recruit for young newbies. There are a lot of grandmothers here, I’d guess, that might give her more advice then she wants. The grandmas could recruit grandkids, though.
If I’ve misjudged the desires of the users here to keep this place going if enough of you let me know I’ll ride off to another place for my hobby.
Incidentally, Guin, if you have a list of my past sins please don’t post it in plain sight, my fragile ego couldn’t handle it. Send it in a PM if you think I need that.
One of the most adept detectives here in finding data on others is the late RayThom. We were antagonists. I never posted my name or email address, but somehow, he found pictures of me that he posted on an earlier version of this site. One that was particularly flattering was me in a racing shell with 8 other guys. Feel free to post anything like that. Thuse.
PS: RayThom gave me the handle Meth. I have bad thoughts of him every time I see it.
Last edited by Methuselah on Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Newbie Report
Okay, enough going down that road please, RT has just passed away only very recently and still due the respect of not being spoken ill of.
Thanks, cheers.
Thanks, cheers.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
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Re: Newbie Report
BSG, I didn't say anything derogatory about RT. I'm allowed to talk about him as long as I don't restart old battles. Now if you want me to speak more ill things about you, let me know.
Re: Newbie Report
You're making accusations about his behaviour that he is no longer here to defend himself against. If any more evidence was required that you're a despicable pile of pig shit...
"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."
-- Author unknown
-- Author unknown
Re: Newbie Report
Bye, Methuselah. Was not nice knowing you. Just FYI, I have no plans to remove you from my foes list; if you ever post something remotely interesting I suspect others will quote you so I will know.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
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Re: Newbie Report
BSG. Noted. That will reduce the amount of things I read everyday, a significant time saving.
Re: Newbie Report
What fatuous arrogance. After the rest of us have been plugging away here for, what, about 10 years now, unless we are willing to buy into every whackadoo idea he comes up with, it must mean that we want to see this place fold up.Methuselah wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:51 pmIf I’ve misjudged the desires of the users here to keep this place going if enough of you let me know I’ll ride off to another place for my hobby.
"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."
-- Author unknown
-- Author unknown
Re: Newbie Report
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light....
And eventually Plan B was born.
Re: Newbie Report
Ok Methuselah, never mind, you seem bound and determined to tell us how things should work here, or what we should be doing, even though you have been here 5 minutes and have no idea what we have done, or tried, or who we have contacted. We’ve been happily managing for a decade and will muddle along just fine.
You sink and swim on your own actions. I won’t try to explain again.
You sink and swim on your own actions. I won’t try to explain again.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
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Re: Newbie Report
Guin,
I've been on the Car Talk and derivative web sites longer than 95% of you, so I feel no obligation to defer all questions about the future to others. Where's my PM with my pile of sins? If anyone knows a kid looking for a thesis topic suggest a history of Car Talk, starting with Tom and Ray's notes on car repair questions and answers where the conversations quickly move to other topics. What was that first publication called? It wasn't a blog. Tell the kid he could sell a lot of copies here, and it it might be a best seller. Tell him not to talk to me, my memory is failing.
I've been on the Car Talk and derivative web sites longer than 95% of you, so I feel no obligation to defer all questions about the future to others. Where's my PM with my pile of sins? If anyone knows a kid looking for a thesis topic suggest a history of Car Talk, starting with Tom and Ray's notes on car repair questions and answers where the conversations quickly move to other topics. What was that first publication called? It wasn't a blog. Tell the kid he could sell a lot of copies here, and it it might be a best seller. Tell him not to talk to me, my memory is failing.
Re: Newbie Report
And in the week of posting as of right now: 1 hello; 7 substantive but short posts; and 61 unsolicited posts, many lengthy, on how we are doing things wrong and he is here to save us. He must have gotten the MAD Magazine version of Dale Carnegie's How to Make Friends and Influence People.Guinevere wrote: ↑Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:30 pmSo you have come in and elbowed your way into the conversation. OK, that's fine - we allow new members. But the vast majority of your posts are not joining the ongoing conversations, but telling us we are using our voices and hands wrong, and is irritating and condescending as hell. Please stop it, and just join in the conversation.
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Re: Newbie Report
Engineers make terrible salesmen. When I was a senior engineer in a large software company I had a reputation as a guy you should get on the phone with you to figure out a customer’s modeling problem. One time it was a new engineer who’d convinced his boss to lease our expensive software. He’d been struggling for a month, telling his boss he hoped to get answers by tomorrow, day after day. Our Chief Sales guy dragged me along on a field trip for a face to face meeting because there were rumors that our contract was about to be dropped. There was a meeting with the boss, the kid engineer, and the two of us. I didn’t know the history of this project. The kid explained what he’d done in his model, and what the diagnostic messages were when the program terminated abruptly without answers. I started out with the statement “interesting model and loading input, but I wouldn’t have done it that way”. I felt a tremendous kick under the table. The sales guy said “we need a 10-minute break. I just got a call for an important message from my family.” He grabbed me and pulled me out into the hall. “What the Hell was that kick about”, I asked. He said “That poor kid is about to get fired, and our code is about to get shipped back to us. Don’t tell him in front of his boss he has to start over and spend another month to get answers.” I said “Oh, you never told me that.” He said “I’m telling you now. Go in there and make his model work his way, with very minor changes to the input. Don’t say anything that sounds like starting over.” I said, “My method will give better answers.” “I guess we’ll never know. I’ll never take you on a field trip again” the salesman said. It was then I realized that engineers and salesmen had different jobs requiring different job skills. If I got a job as a salesman my family would starve to death
Last edited by Methuselah on Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Newbie Report
Funnily enough, as I recall the place grew out of a desire for a Plan B when a very controlling and bullying sort of person, with accomplices, began dictating arbitrary rules and proposing others without regard to feelings of the wider board membership at Cyber Soap Box.Joe Guy wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:59 amIn the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light....
And eventually Plan B was born.
At least this one doesn’t have the keys to our little kingdom.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan
~ Carl Sagan
Re: Newbie Report
Ah yes. Gwenhaywire, (Chicken) Steve and Editec at CSB. The three amigos.BoSoxGal wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:55 amFunnily enough, as I recall the place grew out of a desire for a Plan B when a very controlling and bullying sort of person, with accomplices, began dictating arbitrary rules and proposing others without regard to feelings of the wider board membership at Cyber Soap Box.
At least this one doesn’t have the keys to our little kingdom.
Those were the days...
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Re: Newbie Report
Meth, thanks for telling us how to yank your chain.
The reason for the zero posts as snailgate was that even tho I was registered, the system still had some hoops I needed to jump through. RTH showed me how to avoid them by simply registering another handle. I have used Burning Petard even way back in the Cafe Dartre days. I use both now here to avoid confusion.
Yes, this is marvelous software that I am sure could permit us to do wonderful things. But most of us here prefer to be relatively primitive and use the minimal capabilities.
So Meth, I hope you have a wonderful time explaining it all to us.
snailgate.
The reason for the zero posts as snailgate was that even tho I was registered, the system still had some hoops I needed to jump through. RTH showed me how to avoid them by simply registering another handle. I have used Burning Petard even way back in the Cafe Dartre days. I use both now here to avoid confusion.
Yes, this is marvelous software that I am sure could permit us to do wonderful things. But most of us here prefer to be relatively primitive and use the minimal capabilities.
So Meth, I hope you have a wonderful time explaining it all to us.
snailgate.
- Bicycle Bill
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Re: Newbie Report
It was "Burning Petard of Restraint" back then, if I recollect correctly.Burning Petard wrote: ↑Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:27 amMeth, thanks for telling us how to yank your chain.
The reason for the zero posts as snailgate was that even tho I was registered, the system still had some hoops I needed to jump through. RTH showed me how to avoid them by simply registering another handle. I have used Burning Petard even way back in the Cafe Dartre days. I use both now here to avoid confusion.
I'm getting older, too, so forgive me if I recollect incorrectly.
-"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?