London riots

[Gob]

Fires started after Tottenham police shooting protest



Petrol bombs have been thrown at police and two patrol cars, a bus and buildings have been set on fire in a disturbance in Tottenham, north London.

The incident began after a protest over the fatal shooting of a young man by police on Thursday turned violent.

About 300 people have gathered outside the police station on the High Road.

Members of the community had taken to the streets to demand "justice" after the shooting of 29-year-old father-of-four Mark Duggan.

The BBC's Ben Ando, who is at the scene, described the situation as a "stand off" between police and protesters and said firefighters had come under attack.

Two patrol cars were set alight at about 20:20 BST but officers were not inside at the time.

Shops in the area have also been looted with people seen pushing away shopping trolleys full of goods.

A double decker bus was set on fire at the junction of High Road and Brook Street while a shop on the High Road has also been set alight.

Fire crews were initially unable to reach the shop due to the disorder but have now begun tackling the flames.

A Metropolitan Police spokesman said a large crowd had assembled, but not all of the people on the streets were involved in the disorder.

Commander Stephen Watson told BBC News a significant number of officers had been deployed to the area with the aim of restoring "calm and normality to the area as soon as possible".

Tottenham MP David Lammy appealed for calm saying: "The scenes currently taking place in our community are not representative of the vast majority of people in Tottenham.

"Those who remember the destructive conflicts of the past will be determined not to go back to them.

"We already have one grieving family in our community and further violence will not heal that pain.

"True justice can only follow a thorough investigation of the facts.

"The Tottenham community and Mark Duggan's family and friends need to understand what happened on Thursday evening when Mark lost his life. To understand those facts, we must have calm."

Protesters are believed to have gathered outside the police station at about 17:00 BST.

The force said the situation turned violent when two patrol cars parked about 200 metres away on Forster Road and High Road were attacked.

The spokesman said: "A number of bottles were thrown at these two cars - one was set alight and the second was pushed into the middle of the High Road. It was subsequently set slight.

"The officers were not in the vehicles and were unhurt."

Vanessa Robinson said she had joined the original protest outside the police station and it had begun peacefully.

She said the situation had now turned into "absolute chaos".

One person at the scene, who gave his name as Tim, said: "It's an absolute war zone. I walked up there.

"I saw about five youths, all faces covered up. They set a wheelie bin on fire and threw it into the riot police.

"The whole of the police station is surrounded by... about 100 police officers in riot gear and they threw a wheelie bin into it and then started throwing bricks, street signs, anything they could get their hands on, straight at them."

Another resident, David Akinsanya, 46, said several shop windows had been smashed.

"It's really bad," he said. "There are two police cars on fire. I'm feeling unsafe. It looks like it's going to get very tasty. I saw a guy getting attacked.

He added: "There was a police line of about 15 riot police sort of in front of the police station on the north side and then there were loads of uniformed officers on the south side of the police station.

"They weren't making any effort to go into the crowd. Every now and again they would rush the crowd and the crowd would run.

"But there seems to be a lot of anger in Tottenham tonight... as I left they were starting to attack the police station.

"Obviously they've got the toughened glass so the missiles weren't going through."

The Independent Police Complaints Commission is investigating the shooting of Mr Duggan.

A police officer was also injured in the incident, which happened when police stopped a minicab containing Mr Duggan.

It is thought the officer, who was taken to hospital and later discharged, was shot first but this is not known for certain, an IPCC spokesman said.

The Met said a handgun was found at the scene and a bullet was later found embedded in a police radio.

IPCC Commissioner Rachel Cerfontyne said: "I understand the distress that the shooting of Mark Duggan has caused to his family and in the community and that people need answers about what happened to him."

She said the IPCC was in close contact with Mr Duggan's family, adding: "I have tonight spoken to community representatives and hope to meet with them and others as early as possible."

Ms Cerfontyne said they were still gathering evidence and expected to release further details "as soon as we can".

A spokesman for Mayor of London Boris Johnson said: "Violence and destruction of property will do nothing to facilitate [the IPCC] investigation and we urge those involved to respect the rule of law."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14434318

[The Hen]

I didn't think UK Police carried guns?

I hope normality is returned shortly.

[The Hen]

[liberty]

DemographyTottenham is a multicultural hotspot with many different ethnic groups inhabiting the area. It is often referred to as a black area because it contains one of the largest and most significant populations of African-Caribbean people. These were among the earliest immigrant groups to settle in the area, starting the UK's Windrush era soon after West African communities - notably the many Ghanaians - begun to migrate into the area. Between 1980 and the present day there has been a slow immigration of Colombians, Albanian, Kurdish, Turkish-Cypriot, Turkish, Irish, and Portuguese populations.[citation needed] South Tottenham is reported to be the most ethnically-diverse area in Europe, with up to 300 languages being spoken by its residents.[8]

Tottenham has the highest unemployment rate in London and the 8th highest in the United Kingdom. It therefore has some of the highest poverty rates within the country.[9] There have also been major tensions between the African-Caribbean community and the police since (and before) the 1985 Broadwater Farm riot which stemmed from major issues of racism and police brutality.[10]

Although Tottenham is well known for its diversity and culture, it has also been one of the main hotspots for gangs and gun crime in the United Kingdom during the past three decades. This followed the rise of gangs and drug wars throughout the area, notably those involving the Tottenham Mandem gang and various gangs from Hackney and all of the areas surrounding Tottenham, and the emergence of an organised crime ring known as the Turkish Mafia was said to have controlled more than 90% of the UK's heroin market.[11][12]

[Gob]

Apparently some family were angry that someone was shot and killed, and felt it was unfair. He was armed. Only in the UK would people have the temerity to complain when a armed man was shot dead by the police.

If you carry a gun then the police have every right to shoot first and ask question later.

[The Hen]

Apparently some family were angry that someone was shot and killed, and felt it was unfair. He was armed. Only in the UK would people have the temerity to complain when a armed man was shot dead by the police.

If you carry a gun then the police have every right to shoot first and ask question later.

I agree. But Police never go for a wounding shot. It is my understanding that they only shoot to kill.

And I still didn't realize that Police carried guns in the UK. I thought that was reserved for Tactical Response Teams. It didn't sound from the reports so far that a Response Team was called in to do the shooting.

[Gob]

In the year 2007-08, there were 6,780 Authorised Firearms Officers, 21,181 police operations in which firearms were authorised throughout England and Wales and 7 incidents where conventional firearms were used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use ... ed_Kingdom

What probably happened, in my guestimation, was that the police were aware that this person would be armed, so armed officers were used in his arrest and subsequent shooting.

Edited to add;

Police Federation surveys have continued to show police officers' considerable resistance to routine arming. In the Federation's most recent (2006) Officer/Arming survey, 82% of respondents were against the routine arming of police, although 43% supported an increase in the number of officers trained and authorised to use firearms

[Sean]

It was a planned operation involving armed officers. It is reported that the man fired on police officers when they attempted to stop him. If this is true then there should be no complaints that they responded as they did. The BBC have reported that a bullet was found lodged in a police radio so he obviously did get a shot off. IMO it's unlikely that he would have gotten a shot off once the police started firing on him.

[liberty]

Obviously it was a frame up and a racist police murder. People in Britain are not allowed to own guns so the victim did not have a gun. How could he get one if there were non to buy? ( Devil’s advocate) Someone has got to be liberal you guys are sounding to moderate.

[rubato]

I'd wait and see where the bullet in the radio came from.

Under the stress of real-world conditions even trained shooters are amazingly inaccurate with handguns.

yrs,
rubato

[oldr_n_wsr]

I agree. But Police never go for a wounding shot. It is my understanding that they only shoot to kill.

A wounded perp is still a threat. Police are taught to aim at the largets body mass which is the torso.

In the chaos of a shootout, its either kill or be killed.

[Sean]

Now the rioting has spread through Hackney, Croydon, Lewisham and Peckham. One eyewitness said that Peckham is "on fire".

Well, as long as they get the residents to safety... can it really be a bad thing to burn Peckham down and start from scratch?

[Gob]

Turks in Dalston turn out to defend the area against rioters...

http://twitpic.com/635ffl

[SisterMaryFellatio]

ow the rioting has spread through Hackney, Croydon, Lewisham and Peckham. One eyewitness said that Peckham is "on fire".

Well, as long as they get the residents to safety... can it really be a bad thing to burn Peckham down and start from scratch?

Del Boy and Rodders?

[The Hen]

Leave it out!

[Sean]

Cushty!

[rubato]

Turks in Dalston turn out to defend the area against rioters...

http://twitpic.com/635ffl

Quite a bright spot there.

Encouraging, even.

yrs,
rubato

[Gob]

They came armed with brooms and the odd wheelbarrow.Where youths had roamed the streets with bricks and bats just hours earlier, a new army had appeared.
Invoking London’s famous ‘Blitz spirit’, volunteers responded defiantly to the worst violence the city has witnessed in decades by rolling up their sleeves and helping in the clean-up.







Rock star Ricky Wilson, from the Kaiser Chiefs, was among the crowd

We just came back from tour and it was such a shock to see the violence on telly,’ said the singer, whose band came to prominence with the hit I Predict A Riot. ‘I haven’t got a day job, so I thought I’d come down and help. An army of 500 volunteers with brooms and bin bags is a pretty powerful message.

‘People are out on the streets, reclaiming them. That’s real community spirit.’ Healthcare assistant Auriol Harford, 24, said: ‘In a year’s time, we are going to host the Olympics, but we can’t even control a few teenagers who want to steal some trainers. ‘A crowd of 200 people caused this damage, but there are now 500 here to clean it up. That sends out a strong message. There are more of us than them, and we are not going to let them claim our streets and neighbourhoods. I guess it’s a Blitz spirit.’

Her 22-year-old sister Elizabeth, a student, said: ‘I was absolutely furious that people could attack our community in such a thoughtless way. ‘So many people rallying here illustrates that we will not silently condone this thuggish behaviour.’

The community spirit was replicated across the capital as volunteers went to each high street affected by Monday’s violence and helped in the clean-up. Many were co-ordinated by artist Dan Thompson, who started @riotcleanup on Twitter, and had 75,000 followers by yesterday afternoon. Another group on Twitter called itself #riotwombles, a reference to the furry creations who cleaned up Wimbledon Common.
In Walworth, south-east London, more than 50 volunteers gathered to help businesses in the clear-up. Among those badly hit by looters was TD Sports, a small independent sports supplier which suffered £50,000 worth of losses on Monday night. Owner Dave Cox, 50, said: ‘I felt numb when I saw the damage, I just wanted to cry. I’m far from a wealthy person, and without this shop, I will lose my livelihood, my house, everything.’ But at 10.15am yesterday, something unexpected happened. As Mr Cox surveyed the carnage, a group of volunteers arrived and offered to help him clear it up.

In less than 30 minutes the smashed glass was swept away and the shop restored to a semblance of normality. Then with cheery waves, the helpers were gone to help the next stricken business. ‘It was fantastic, I was very emotional actually,’ said Mr Cox. ‘It proves there are still some good people around.’ One of the volunteers was Father Andrew Moughtin-Mumby, rector of nearby St Peter’s Church, who witnessed the looting. ‘What was really shocking was that it was like a carnival atmosphere, it was surreal,’ he said. ‘This clean-up was completely spontaneous. This gives London some hope.
‘It also shows there’s still a real sense of community, the people are reclaiming the streets.’ In Liverpool, which also saw rioting on Monday, 21-year-old bartender Charles Jupiter set up a ‘Liverpool Clean Up’ Facebook page that brought about 100 volunteers onto the streets yesterday morning.

He said: ‘I thought: “Not in my city”. ‘People were posting “I’m embarrassed to be English, I’m embarrassed to be from London or Liverpool.” ‘I reposted and said: “I’m not. That’s why I’m going out there to help clean up.”’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1UZrErbax

[dales]

Armed Korean merchants protect their stores during the 1992 LA Riots.

[Sean]

I'm not buying this 'neglected inner-city youth rebellion' bullshit. It's just an excuse for these fuckwits to go on an orgy of wanton violence, destruction and looting. Mostly looting.

Birmingham has kicked off bigtime... three dead so far... and I'm becoming concerned for my family's safety. It's notable that the places where the 'riots' are happening are the city centre and those areas with large shopping centres.

The police are under-resourced and cannot control this. It's only going to get worse unless definite action is taken. If that necessitates sending in the army then so be it.

I'd be issuing rubber bullets about now...