Ban LoCAtek

[Lord Jim]

I would associate myself with that quote of Joe's as well...

I have come to this place very reluctantly.....

I've always opposed banning her before, and I've been clear about my exasperation with her, but have never been a party to any sort of attack fest, and have always offered her praise and encouragement whenever I saw a glimmer of hope that she might finally turn away from the destructive course she had set for herself....(of course now, in retrospect, during those lulls when it looked like maybe she was finally going to let go of her obsession, it appears that all she was doing was pausing to reload....)

I feel absolutely no sense of joy or triumphalism about this whatsoever....

And I hope she gets the help she needs, and I wish all the best....

It's very sad that it's come to this, but come to this it has, (there's just no way to excuse, rationalize, or minimize what she has done this time) and she has no one to blame for it but herself.

[The Hen]

I have received a PM from loCAtek, with the subject line "The History." I will respect the confidentiality of the message itself, and under normal circumstances I would not publicly go even this far, by publicly revealing the existence of this message. But due to the nature of what's going on, I feel I must ask: are there others of you who have received this message? (You can PM me if you don't feel comfortable saying so in public.)

It is ashame that potentially more misinformation is going around about this.

I wonder how much of 'the History' would actually accord with the truth?

If it is a truthful History, then she should be able to post it freely, otherwise it potentially is just more unsubstantiated allegations.

I know there was little truth in the complaint that was lodged about Gob.

I know there was no truth in the precious claims she made about me.

[Lord Jim]

I don't know if anyone else got it or not, (I did not) but if I had to speculate, I would guess that she's probably sending it to selected members that she sees as possibly being "persuadables" in order to try to reduce the vote in favor of banning her.

And of course, by sending it as a PM she gets to put whatever version she wants into it, without having her claims or characterizations subjected to general scrutiny.....

[Andrew D]

I have a piece of non-legal advice not based on anything that anyone may or may not have communicated to me on this or any other subject. Take it for what it is (or is not) worth.

If you are going to debate this matter on this board, then:

OUT WITH IT!

This whole business is, on this board, a fog of non-information and consequent conjecture.

There is, everyone appears to agree, a complaint.

What does it say?

I have seen a great deal about whether loCAtek wrongly or rightly (there is little support for the latter view) made the complaint. I have seen a great deal about whether Gob and, by not much extension, The Hen are right or wrong (there is little support for the latter view) in objecting to the making of that complaint.

But I have seen very little about the complaint itself.

I am going to use Lord Jim in the following purely hypothetical example, partly because our previous discords make it at least somewhat plausible, and partly because I think that he is inclined towards the kind of reasoning which I am employing. (If not, apologies in advance.)

Suppose that I said "Lord Jim is defaming me". Everyone here would want to know (a) what allegedly defamatory statements did he make, (b) when and where did he make them, and (c) what evidence is there that those statements are defamatory?

Suppose that he then said "Andrew D has filed a complaint against me involving things that I said on this board". Everyone here would want to know (a) what does my complaint against him say, (b) to whom did I make that complaint, and (c) what statements of his on this board allegedly support that complaint?

I am seeing almost none of this. I do not see what accusation(s) loCAtek has allegedly made in her complaint. I do not see what statements by Gob and/or The Hen allegedly support that accusation or those accusations. I do not see how anyone's conduct on this board relates to anything having to do with Gob's employment.

I do not see ... I do not see ... I do not see ....

What I do see is an incomprehensible morass of inchoate accusations operating in a factual vacuum.

I previously wrote that loCAtek's "latest conduct strikes me -- based on the limited facts available to me -- as inexcusable." Upon further reflection, however, I find myself unable to reach even that tentative conclusion.

I find myself unable to reach any even tentative conclusion at all.

And I find myself mystified by the willingness of others to reach conclusions, especially non-tentative conclusions.

WHAT, EXACTLY, IS THIS DISPUTE ABOUT?

FACTS.

FACTS.

WHAT ARE THE SPECIFIC FACTS?

(Edited to add a missing tag.)

[Sean]

loCA got suspended and was supposed to be given a clean slate upon her return, but folks were just waiting to pounce on the littlest thing to start up the fights again. Scooter, Sean, Gob. Is she susceptible to that poking and egging on? Of course - she's an addict.

Okay BSG, seeing as you brought my name into that...

I'm not going to speak for Scooter or Gob (they're big enough and ugly enough to speak for themselves), but in my case what you have written there is an outright lie!

Please either retract it or show me any evidence supporting your accusation.

[Gob]

Andrew, my reason for not broadcasting the details of the complaint made by Lo is for future protection.

I do not wish to educate Lo as to the large number of mistakes, outright falsehoods, omissions, and other basic errors she made.

Putting up the contents of the claims she made against me would open them up for debate, and as I respect the intelligence of the members here, probable exposure of the idiocy involved in it.

There would be nothing then preventing Lo for doing a rehashed complaint, and dragging me further into her mire.

If people here do not believe what I have said, then that is their prerogative. I have not lied in any way.

[The Hen]

loCA got suspended and was supposed to be given a clean slate upon her return, but folks were just waiting to pounce on the littlest thing to start up the fights again. Scooter, Sean, Gob. Is she susceptible to that poking and egging on? Of course - she's an addict.

Okay BSG, seeing as you brought my name into that...

I'm not going to speak for Scooter or Gob (they're big enough and ugly enough to speak for themselves), but in my case what you have written there is an outright lie!

Please either retract it or show me any evidence supporting your accusation.

Actually, I don't recall BSG's version at all

There was the odd slap provided to Lo, but that was after she had posted objectionably.

A clean slate requires both sides to be clean. One side was filthy (or at least tainted).

[MajGenl.Meade]

The thread on Dual Citizenship got me to thinking about an aspect of this thread.

Say a person renounces US citizenship and becomes a citizen of Erewhon. Some time later they hear that there is a 2 mill levy on the November ballot in their old hometown to put up a huge statue of the mayor and council. Outraged, that person contacts the US Embasssy in Erewhon and says "Oh please give me a temporary Citizenship so I can cast my absentee vote against that vile monstrosity which is all wrong and must be stopped. Once I've voted, you can take back that temporary citizenship because you Americans are all jerks and it's much nicer here in Erewhon".

You are the person in charge at the US Embassy.

What do you do?

Meade

[Lord Jim]

Okay BSG, seeing as you brought my name into that...

Sean, there's enough BS in her posts in this thread to fertilize all the tulips in Holland...

You could practically deconstruct everything she's said line by line (largely using her own earlier words) ...much of it is truly breathtaking for its sheer mendacity and outrageousness...she hasn't been merely dishonest; she has constructed a complete alternative reality....

But this really isn't the place to go into that...

Maybe the thing to do, (since she refuses to do it, preferring instead to foul this thread) is to start a thread dealing with her fantasy narrative. (Personally I have to admit that biting my tongue, and resisting the impulse to blow apart all the nonsense she has posted here this week is tough, but this really isn't the thread for it. )

[TPFKA@W]

I smell something but I can't tell if it is all the toxicity on this board or I left something on the stove burning.

[Lord Jim]

Hey there, you...

[Sean]

Go for it Jim!

Good to see you TPFK@AW!

[The Hen]

It was YOU that left the stove on!

Have I got an electricity bill for you.

[TPFKA@W]

Rats, I have been found out. No fooling you lot.

[Gob]

AaAarghh! It's her!!!! Run!!!

[TPFKA@W]

AaAarghh! It's her!!!! Run!!!

Nothing like a good old fashioned banning to bring the family together.

You should have them more often.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Admins, please change "ignore" to "shun"

[oldr_n_wsr]

We all have so much sympathy for oldr, but as to lo - the piling on was quick and furious and without relent.

I can only speak for myself, but I have tried to live the 12 steps since I have seriously had the desire to stop drinking, which is the only requirement for membership. I have been in contact (but not lately) with loCAtek off the board and have urged her to get "with the program". I will not give her response to that as what happens off the board, I will only state my advice not anyone elses response.

If people have given me sympathy that's great, (although I take it as support as that means I can lean on you guys when the going gets tough, where as sympathy just mean you feel sorry for me and I have enough pity for myself thank you very much ) maybe it means I am doing something right. "Doing the next right thing" is what I am striving for. loCAtek needs to embrace more of the culture of the 12 steps, as do most people of the world. They are not just a way to stop drinking, they are indeed a way to a more peaceful and satisfying life (remove the God thing for those who don't want to go there and the steps still work). I don't want to sound like a born again (not that there is anything wrong with that faith) but there are things in the steps which would help many a person live a better life and make them more peaceful with who they are.

As far as Quad was concerned with JoeGuy and LordJim, he threatened to use his RL position/employment/employers access to dig up data on members and those members, doing nothing but disputing Quads arguments and calling him names, took that as a serious threat against them and took action. That's a little different than loCATek contacting Gobs place and filing a complaint. If truth be told, it is Quad who acted closer to what loCAtek did than Joe Guy or Lord Jim.

I would never wish to destroy any person I met on the internet no matter how pissed off I got at them. It's the internet after all. But I also say "don't F@#$ with me" either (in real life).

[The Hen]

Thank you for your fair questions without wildly speculating, BigRR.

I can speak about the procedure; as to whom I contacted. As stated, I first contacted Maurice Blackburn Pty Limited, in the spring for legal advice regarding a complaint. There were emails and phone interviews, whereupon the firm agreed that my complaint was valid enough to be forwarded to the HCCC - NSW Health Care Complaints Commission. A few months ago, I received a letter from the HCCC stating that they would look into this matter.
At no time, have I directly contacted Mr. Gob's employer; these actions were done the by HCCC, and deemed appropriate by them.

I can say, the matter is not regarding internet stalking in any form, nor can result in Mr. Gob's hardship to the extent which he has stated.

I am REALLY surprised that Maurice Blackburn put in such a poorly worded and poorly constructed complaint.

I would have thought that your Australian legal reps would have given you a tad more assistance than just showing you where the on-line form could be accessed, particularly after those emails and phone calls you exchanged.

[MajGenl.Meade]

A few months ago, I received a letter from the HCCC

Hen, can you tell us the date of signature/submission on the form? (If it was an actual pen/ink signature, doesn't that mean the form was downloaded and faxed/mailed/scanned back to Oz?)

Meade