The Muscovite Candidate

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RayThom
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The Muscovite Candidate

Post by RayThom »

BoSoxGal wrote:Ronald Reagan is rolling in his grave, right?!
BSG, Obama must have seen your post above prior to today's press conference.

‘Ronald Reagan Would Roll Over in His Grave’:
Obama Rips GOP For 37% of Them Favoring Putin

If you'd like, start at 1:50 into the vid:
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BoSoxGal
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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by BoSoxGal »

Great minds, RayThom.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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liberty
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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by liberty »

The truth is not always pleasant , but it is still the truth. Putin is a greater leader than anyone we have our side. We have a couple military leaders that may be match for him, but no one in government. And the Russian people are superior to us hands down. We out number them two to one, but three quarters of our people are militarily worthless. The only thing we have going for us is that Trump would use nukes before he would allow a Russian army to occupy Alaska; his ego would not allow him to lose.
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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Joe Guy
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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Joe Guy »

U R nutz...

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Bicycle Bill »

liberty wrote:And the Russian people are superior to us hands down. We out number them two to one, but three quarters of our people are militarily worthless. The only thing we have going for us is that Trump would use nukes before he would allow a Russian army to occupy Alaska.
First of all, which group do you put yourself in, and why?

Secondly, the Japanese military experts made the same mistake in WWII, thinking that giving the Americans a bloody nose and a black eye at Pearl Harbor would be enough to cow us and keep us out of the war in the Pacific.  The same goes for Hitler and the Nazis.  Neither group realized what a pissed-off, motivated America was capable of.

Most of the draftees pressed into service during WWII were probably what you would have called "militarily worthless" at first too.  But with training and after being supplied with the proper equipment, they went forth and did the job.  And those that were unable to pick up arms and join the actual fighting, whether because of age or because they were the "weaker sex", were the ones that stepped up and kept the factories running and the needed materials pouring out in massive quantities; quantities so great and seemingly inexhaustible that by the end of the war we were building bombers faster than the Germans could shoot them down and launching cargo ships faster than they could torpedo them.

And that's what would happen again if Putin ever decided to get too big for his britches — which he won't.  Because he is smart enough to know one thing, and that's this:

Out of all the countries in the world that have nuclear weapons, AMERICA IS THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS ACTUALLY USED THEM.  And Putin knows that if we did it before, we can and would do it again.
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Lord Jim
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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Lord Jim »

liberty wrote:The truth is not always pleasant , but it is still the truth. Putin is a greater leader than anyone we have our side. We have a couple military leaders that may be match for him, but no one in government. And the Russian people are superior to us hands down. We out number them two to one, but three quarters of our people are militarily worthless. The only thing we have going for us is that Trump would use nukes before he would allow a Russian army to occupy Alaska; his ego would not allow him to lose.
That's one of the most bizarre and wrong-headed posts I think I've ever seen... :roll: :shrug

First of all Vladimir Putin is a murdering, plundering, authoritarian thug who is a threat to his neighbors and throughout the world. (Most recently, he has been committing war crimes in Syria by targeting military attacks against relief convoys and hospitals; just the latest in a long list of crimes)

If he meets your criteria for a "great leader" we don't occupy the same quadrant of the galaxy...

This bit I simply find disgusting, and completely unsupported by any empirical evidence:
the Russian people are superior to us hands down. We out number them two to one, but three quarters of our people are militarily worthless.
And then this:
The only thing we have going for us is that Trump would use nukes before he would allow a Russian army to occupy Alaska
What on earth gives you that idea?

All the evidence to date indicates that if Putin demanded Alaska back, Trump would agree to negociations, say he thought Putin had a good point, and then maybe strike a deal where the US ceded half the state to the Russians...

Which he would declare to be a "Great Deal" for America, and proof of what a fantastic negociator he is...
Last edited by Lord Jim on Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Burning Petard »

The Donald has been wonderfully, predictably, consistent in his inconsistence and self-contradictions.

the Gail Collin essay in the NY Times today reviews the Donald's assertions about his relationship with the great leader of all the Russians:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/16/opini ... inion&_r=0

We can safely predict the situation among the Donald's opponents will be 'so sad'. We can safely predict the Donald will continue his record of self-puffery over a long list of continuing financial failures. He has demonstrated three outstanding skills: surrounding himself with yes-men, building a real estate empire built on bad debt that resembles the heritage of another Russian leader, a Potemkin Village, and self-puffery. Bush 43 demonstrated a similar record of financial success before and during his presidency, but he lacked the Donald's ability to forget and ignore anything he said before the last three minutes.

By the way, you, the American tax-payer, is the landlord for the New Trump Hotel in DC. The taxpayer has leased the old Post Office Building to be the hotel. Who among the federales is responsible for evicting him when he stops paying the rent?

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Guinevere
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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Guinevere »

The lease is via the GSA, General Services Administration. Any dispute about the lease or a breach of the lease is handled by the federal Board of Contract Appeals, and these cases eventually wind their way to the Federal Claims Court.

But before there is a breach for nonpayment of rent, there is far more likely to be a breach of the explicit terms of the lease which does not allow any elected official of the United States government to share in any benefit from the contract.

A pretty good BuzzFeed article laying out the issues link here: https://www.buzzfeed.com/danielwagner/t ... .hhjvK673y

Again, this is another significant conflict of interest for the Trumpanzee and his family. This is not just a blip on the radar screen, the Emoluments clause really is a big deal, even though the Trumpanzee and his staff continue to tweet and bleat otherwise. Pay attention, the dissent and pressure is only getting started.


ETA: PLEASE READ an excellent analysis of the lease and requirements here - article won't let me copy text so CLICK the link -- http://www.govexec.com/excellence/promi ... le/133424/
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ex-khobar Andy
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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Per LJ above:
All the evidence to date indicates that if Putin demanded Alaska back, Trump would agree to negotiations, say he thought Putin had a good point, and then maybe strike a deal where the US ceded half the state to the Russians
If he could get say $70 million for Alaska that would be a 900% profit - huuuuuuuuge - and it must be very tempting.

And of course with Sarah Palin being the Republicans' voice of reason on crony capitalism (yes, yes, I know) he might be tempted to negotiate, as part of the deal, that Putin take all the contents.

And as a side note, I find myself agreeing with LJ more and more. Last week I agreed with Palin (vide supra). All this is vaguely troubling. I think I will go and lie down, and take my meds.

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Guinevere
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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Guinevere »

Andy
ex-khobar Andy wrote: And as a side note, I find myself agreeing with LJ more and more. Last week I agreed with Palin (vide supra). All this is vaguely troubling. I think I will go and lie down, and take my meds.
Please see thread where I've made similar comments. I don't think we are moving in LJ's direction though; he is moving towards us. :mrgreen:
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Crackpot »

No he's just not insane
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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RayThom
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The Muscovite Candidate

Post by RayThom »

The contract language is clear: “No ... elected official of the Government of the United States ... shall be admitted to any share or part of this Lease, or to any benefit that may arise therefrom...”

The language could not be any more specific or clear. Donald Trump will breach the contract on Jan. 20, when, while continuing to benefit from the lease, he will become an “elected official of the Government of the United States.”

... we believe GSA can justify its termination in litigation. But the worst thing that can happen is that the government will be liable for monetary damages. (We are aware of no precedent in which the Trump organization could gain injunctive relief that would require GSA to continue the lease relationship.)

... damages could be awarded, we expect them to be nominal at best. Courts are skeptical of claims for anticipatory profits, primarily because any such recovery is, by its very nature, speculative. Regardless, it would be a price worth paying to preserve the integrity of our government and its contracting system. The faster GSA ends its business relationship with the Trump Organization, the better.
No contract is ever "iIronclad." Clever lawyers can rip anything to shreds. Want to bet that Drumpf gains injunctive relief and even finds some loophole miraculously supplied by Congress? And, yet, if forced to sell, damages will not be nominal but YUGE.

This should be good.
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Gob
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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Gob »

Crackpot wrote:No he's just not insane

It's all relative isn't it?
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Econoline »

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liberty
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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by liberty »

Bicycle Bill wrote:
liberty wrote:And the Russian people are superior to us hands down. We out number them two to one, but three quarters of our people are militarily worthless. The only thing we have going for us is that Trump would use nukes before he would allow a Russian army to occupy Alaska.
First of all, which group do you put yourself in, and why?

I an in the militarily worthless group ; If I tried to serve at this point on my life I would be more of a burden than a benefit. However it is not my spirit that is weak, my rebel yell is still strong, but the body is not up to it . Hell I have been retired for going on thirty years. If they sent me back to survival school now it would kill me.

Secondly, the Japanese military experts made the same mistake in WWII, thinking that giving the Americans a bloody nose and a black eye at Pearl Harbor would be enough to cow us and keep us out of the war in the Pacific.  The same goes for Hitler and the Nazis.  Neither group realized what a pissed-off, motivated America was capable of.

Most of the draftees pressed into service during WWII were probably what you would have called "militarily worthless" at first too.  But with training and after being supplied with the proper equipment, they went forth and did the job.  And those that were unable to pick up arms and join the actual fighting, whether because of age or because they were the "weaker sex", were the ones that stepped up and kept the factories running and the needed materials pouring out in massive quantities; quantities so great and seemingly inexhaustible that by the end of the war we were building bombers faster than the Germans could shoot them down and launching cargo ships faster than they could torpedo them.

But we are not the same people we were then. The motto of the day was not ,” HELL NO WE WON’T GO. R,O.T.C. and draft board facilities were not sabotaged . Fraging officers was not considered a right thing to do.

And that's what would happen again if Putin ever decided to get too big for his britches — which he won't.  Because he is smart enough to know one thing, and that's this:

You are right he is smart, very smart and he won’t do it unless he is sure he can get away with it and as long as we have a president that will use tactical nukes he can’t get away with it. Putin has superior people, but they are not fire proof.

Out of all the countries in the world that have nuclear weapons, AMERICA IS THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS ACTUALLY USED THEM.  And Putin knows that if we did it before, we can and would do it again.

That is all we have going for us in this case. We have an outstanding army, but they are not big enough to deal with a country like Russia.

Didn’t Obama say he wanted to get rid of all our nukes?

And why does it bother you guys so much that the Russian are a superior people?






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Lord Jim
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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Lord Jim »

I don't think we are moving in LJ's direction though; he is moving towards us
.

I disagree with that entirely...

My entire adult life, I have been a Reagan Republican....

An advocate of limited government, (as opposed to no government) and a strong national defense...

I've never been a "social conservative"...(to be frank, I don't give one small damn about "gay marriage;" I attended a marriage of a good friend; my daughter helped plan the wedding...its never been an important issue for me)

It's far more worrisome to me that we could have an incoming POTUS who is a Russian agent of influence...
Last edited by Lord Jim on Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Bicycle Bill »

liberty wrote:But we are not the same people we were then.  The motto of the day was not "HELL NO WE WON’T GO". R.O.T.C. and draft board facilities were not sabotaged.  Fragging officers was not considered a right thing to do.
And that right there is where I think you are seriously wrong.  Deep down inside we *ARE* the same people.

You're referring to the mindset of the 1960s and 1970s, when the reasons we were going to 'war' (in Vietnam, in Grenada, in the Middle East, in Afghanistan, etc) were never made clear.  We were not fighting to preserve our own freedom or to liberate an ally from the grip of a despotic madman or to overthrow a tyrannical empire whose raison d'être was diametrically opposed to ours, as was the case in WWII.  We were fighting to protect American interests overseas (oil, usually; we Americans gotta have our $2.00/gallon gasoline and cheap heating oil!) or because of the then-prevalent "domino theory" ("if we don't fight them in 'Nam these other countries will fall one by one and we'll end up fighting the commies in downtown Des Moines").

Were Putin to try to take Alaska, let's say, by force or launch an invasion of Europe by sending units across the borders of Germany, Poland, or the Czech Republic "Battle of the Bulge"-style, or if ISIS/ISIL or whateverthehell they call themselves were to step up terrorist operations in the USA I think you'd see a rallying of support and lines outside recruiting offices to rival the days after Pearl Harbor.  Don't believe me?  Just look what happened after 9/11 or with the US-led coalition against Saddam Hussein during the first Gulf War.

And I reject your claim that the Russians are a superior people.  They are on the whole a similar people, and that's the closest I will come to agreeing with you.
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Lord Jim
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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Lord Jim »

To expand on my earlier post...

Since the election, I have given serious consideration to becoming an Independent, but after 40 plus years as a Republican, (that goes back to passing out "President Nixon Now..More Than Ever" buttons when I was 13 years old in 1972) it's not a decision I would make lightly...

I'm used to being in a party where a strong segment is to my right on issues like abortion, but when I see an appalling and depressing poll result ("appalled" and "depressed" have been pretty much constant features of my attitude about the national political situation for nearly a year, ever since The Trump Thing started winning primaries) showing over a third of people claiming to be Republicans having a positive attitude about Vladimir Putin... :loon it really gives me pause...

But on the other hand I would never, ever, EVER join the party of class envy; the party that has as its foundational principle the idea that letting people keep more of their own money is a "give away". The party that basically holds the private sector in contempt, and believes that government mandates are the go-to solutions for all our problems...

Private sector solutions, and private/public partnerships are always to be preferred to government action whenever possible...

(But I also I realize that something like the interstate highway system (which has enormously fueled private sector wealth generation) would never have been built by the private sector alone...)

On national defense and national security, with Trump leading the GOP, we have for the first time since WW II a situation where neither party is hardcore...(throughout most of the Cold War, until the 70s, both parties were dominated by realistic hawks)

Hillary Clinton as a person was hardcore on these issues, but she will no longer be leading the Democrats, and the dominant theme within the Democratic Party is essentially pacifist and defeatist...

At the moment, I feel like a Man Without A Party, but my natural inclination is to stand and fight, rather than give up on the GOP...

I'm not ready to walk away from the party of Lincoln and Reagan, and surrender it to the drooling Trumpanzees...

But if ultimately I make that painful and reluctant decision, you can be DAMN sure,it won't be to join the party of Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinich...
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Guinevere
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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Guinevere »

LJ, I have no delusions that you or any of my other disillusioned Republican friends are going to become Democrats even though some of them, like you, voted for HRC. And I do agree with whoever it was that said that you're not insane. :mrgreen:

But defining the Democratic Party by Lizzie Warren, Bernie Sanders and Dennis-who even remembers him anymore-Kucinich is it incredibly narrow and incorrect definition of the party. Remember, we did nominate HRC and not Bernie. I like having them out there, and I like having them pushing hard against Trump. You should appreciate that too. But do I think either of them are going to be the next Democratic nominee for president? We are a long long way from that right now, and neither of them would be my first choice.
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Re: The Muscovite Candidate

Post by Econoline »

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