Good that they focus on the real priority of war refugees

[oldr_n_wsr]

is going to see both a physical and a spiritual need here.

I have experienced first hand how quickly the physical goes down hill when the spiritual connection is not maintained.

[Econoline]

Yes, I got your point (both of you).

But my point was that to have any hope of success, the food and shelter must be provided *FIRST*--before any attempt at proselytizing.

I have experienced first hand how quickly the physical goes down hill when the spiritual connection is not maintained.

And vice versa.

[wesw]

that thing about misery and hunger making the receiving the good news impossible is just not true. losing everything you love, hitting rock bottom and sitting with a big pile of methadone in front of you begging for the end is actually the perfect time to get the good news.

the church actuall gave me nothing in the way of food or shelter, god provided that, the church gave me love, the bible gave me the good news

[Gob]

If god wanted them to eat he'd make the bible edible.

[MajGenl.Meade]

LJ -

Gob

[Guinevere]

Clean drinking water and some calorie intake are required to sustain human life. Books of any kind (as much as I adore them), are not.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Do people obtusely refuse to recognize (not agree with but recognize) that "sustaining human life" in its most important meaning refers not to life on this world but to life eternal, to a Christian?

I don't think refugees etc. should be given Bibles to the exclusion of water, food, shelter and so on. The Bible itself warns against that - James 2:16 "If one of you says to them, 'Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?"

But it is sheer ignorance to criticize an effort to provide Bibles to people - refugees or not - with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever as to whether or not the people donating funds have or have not donated for physical temporal needs also. People in refugee camps are receiving help in the form of food and shelter - may they not also receive toys for children? Should no one visit and sing songs of encouragement? Are people who do those things to be held up to ridicule?

Of course not. THOSE people are all right. THOSE people aren't having the cheek to address spiritual matters. The right people have spoken - you can send Marmite but not a Bible. "We" will decide what is appropriate for refugees to have.

More than a whiff of bigotry going on here

[Lord Jim]

Yeah, I have a strong feeling that if these were Teddy Bears rather than Bibles that this group was sending, that we wouldn't see all these self-righteous condemnations....

[Guinevere]

Talk about sneering and condescending ....

Food and water first.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I can't help all the sneering and condescending coming from the chattering classes.

Is there anything about this:

I don't think refugees etc. should be given Bibles to the exclusion of water, food, shelter and so on.

that is sneering and condescending?

Well how about this then:

The people on the other side of this issue keep posting like they see Meade or myself, (or somebody) saying that Bibles should be provided instead of food or shelter

Maybe this from the professor of condescension and sneering:

Good that they focus on the real priority of war refugees
I remember Jesus saying "feed the hungry" and "clothe the naked". "Give them each a complete set of scripture scrolls" doesn't appear in any of the translations I possess

Yes, that must be it. Scooter - cut it out. Guin doesn't like it

[wesw]

it s very disheartening that the only time that some people deign to recognize and publicize the plight of those suffering at the hands of the few dozen crazies ,who just happen to be muslim extremists, is when it offers the opportunity to rag on Christians. when the Christians are being bought and sold..., nothing.

[Guinevere]

My comment refers to LJs post, Meade. He knows full well he's tossing out a red herring so he can "sneer" at those he deems to be anti-Christian.

Interesting how both he and you need to find condescending words to characterize those of us questioning the priorities of the folks in the OP. The "chattering classes," really?

[MajGenl.Meade]

Well now, I didn't quote you as sneering etc. so I'm not sure why you self-identify with chattering classes. I really had in mind only one example of that class. Perhaps I shouldn't have been so mean

[Lord Jim]

When I said "sneering and condescending", I referred specifically to this:

This sneering comment pretty much says it all in terms of where the author of this article is coming from:

Replacing their religion with another kind of fiction won’t do anything to improve their situation.

Meade's right; a Christian believer is going to see both a physical and a spiritual need here. (I certainly see that) But if you don't believe in the spiritual, (like the sneering, condescending fellow who wrote the article) you don't.

Derisively dismissing the Faiths of billions of people as "fiction" is about as "sneering and condescending" as you can get...

[Guinevere]

Well now, I didn't quote you as sneering etc. so I'm not sure why you self-identify with chattering classes. I really had in mind only one example of that class. Perhaps I shouldn't have been so mean

"Classes" is plural, is it not? And you specifically named Scooter and I.

FWIW, and I was raised as an Episcopalian and I "self-identify" as a member of that church, but one who has a lot of questions and concerns about organized Christianity and organized religion. I believe Christ existed. I believe in miracles. I believe in God. Or maybe Gods. I think I have faith (in what, i'm still not sure). I just cannot "christianity" that measures the value of one human life over another because of beliefs. Or that condemns a good human to hell, because of beliefs. Perhaps I'm still stuck in the Sunday School version of Christianity, because I'm sure I started questioning and challening around the age of 12. All of which is a different discussion for a different place. My point is only that one should be careful in one's assumptions.

[MajGenl.Meade]

That is well. "Chattering classes" is plural because that's the original quote and for no other reason.

The chattering classes is a generally derogatory term first coined by Auberon Waugh often used by pundits and political commentators to refer to a politically active, socially concerned and 'highly' educated section of the "metropolitan middle class", especially those with political, media, and academic connections

Only Scooter was identified by me as sneering and condescending. I used your name as that of a person who does not like condescension and sneering, viz:

Scooter - cut it out. Guin doesn't like it

[Gob]

Do people obtusely refuse to recognize (not agree with but recognize) that "sustaining human life" in its most important meaning refers not to life on this world but to life eternal, to a Christian?

No. Because to recognise it (note "s") it would be necessary to give it some scintilla of credence, which I certainly do not.

More than a whiff of bigotry going on here

Not bigotry, incredulity.

[oldr_n_wsr]

. Or that condemns a good human to hell, because of beliefs.

The house of god (heaven) has many rooms (beliefs).
at least that's how I see it.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Do people obtusely refuse to recognize (not agree with but recognize) that "sustaining human life" in its most important meaning refers not to life on this world but to life eternal, to a Christian?

No. Because to recognise it (note "s") it would be necessary to give it some scintilla of credence, which I certainly do not

Ah, so you must think that I am lying when I say that to a Christian/b] the most important "sustaining" of life is the eternal life that Christ's death and resurrection grant to those who believe?

It's not a question of what you believe on that subject.

Perhaps I should try this: I don't recognize that Gob isn't a Christian because to recognize his belief it would be necessary to give it some scintilla of credence, which I certainly do not. OK I see how it works. So you are a Christian then, Gob? That's nice!

[Scooter]

you ask, nay demand, tolerance from people who don t believe as you do, yet deny it to those who you disagree with. you are the worst sort of hypocrite . you don t want tolerance, you want power. power to shove your views down the gullet of everyone and the power to punish those who refuse to swallow it. (hee hee hee)

you want to alienate those who you disagree with, just as gay folks were alienated. you want revenge. you are a hateful vindictive little man, and you and people like you, set back the cause of gay people everywhere. people who would other wise live and let live turn, against you because of your militant "i m here and I m queer" schtick.

Ok, the lightbulb just turned on, and I can see that we have been here before.

You read something I wrote in a completely unrelated thread, you decided to give it whatever meaning would piss you off the most, and instead of spitting out whatever it is you thought you heard me say, you come to this thread, manage to insert four distinct references to an issue that is à propos of absolutely nothing in this thread, accuse me of hating 3 billion Christians and supporting Muslim terrorism.

This is, of course, a replay of the "Scooter hates Southerners" bullshit you kept up for weeks. I must have asked you at least four times to point out the posts you "interpreted" in that way. This time, I do not care enough to ask even once