Start them young

[Sue U]

Yes, you buy uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage (in NY, called "SUM") for your own benefit. It covers your losses (both economic and non-economic) in the event the at-fault driver is either uninsured or carries less liability coverage than the limit you select on your own policy. (In "no-fault" states like NY, your "no-fault" or "PIP" insurance covers your medical expenses for injuries arising from an auto accident.)

As to the OP: Children under age 11 killed so far this year by guns: 559. Tyrants overthrown: 0.

Freedumb!

The U.S. has to be the stupidest country in the industrialized world. That's "American exceptionalism."

[Beer Sponge]

As to the OP: Children under age 11 killed so far this year by guns: 559. Tyrants overthrown: 0

This is just maddening. Only the most foolish ignore the harm done by the prevalence of firearms in society. Owning a firearm should be a privilege, not a right.

[rubato]

We need strict liability for all gun owners. They are responsible for all injuries or losses due to any use of a firearm they possess unless they can prove that it was stored securely. They are responsible for the use of any gun which they transfer to another.

That is what "being responsible" means.


yrs,
rubato

[Sue U]

As to the OP: Children under age 11 killed so far this year by guns: 559. Tyrants overthrown: 0

This is just maddening. Only the most foolish ignore the harm done by the prevalence of firearms in society. Owning a firearm should be a privilege, not a right.

This is the conclusion I have come to over the last seven years. It's the only solution to the gun problem -- and it very much is a gun problem. We are averaging more than one mass shooting a day in this country and 1,000 gun homicides a month. It's absurd, and would be comic if it weren't so fucking awful. Whatever the charms of the Second Amendment were in 1789, they are anachronistic today; the American constitutional right to gun ownership has long outlived its purpose and has become a monster killing us from within. The Second Amendment must be repealed and gun ownership must be a severely restricted privilege. Fewer guns = fewer gun crimes. It's really just that simple.

[Scooter]

[Big RR]

Owning a firearm should be a privilege, not a right.

Interesting point Beer Sponge; it is a right, but perhaps people would be better off if individual gun owners considered it a privilege. As a comparison, I know I have a right to procreate and raise children, but I consider it a great privilege to be able to parent and raise my daughters; and considering it that way has, IMHO, made me a more responsible parent. I look out for them, keep the safe, guide them, ... because I am aware of this great privilege and the responsibility that comes with it.

Turning to gun ownership, if more saw it as a privilege, they would be more aware of proper care of guns, of learning how to handle them, of storing them appropriately, maybe even keeping the number owned to a reasonable level to permit proper storage and care. My guess is that most gun owners are responsible and look at it this way, but it would help if such a view point were encouraged.

[wesw]

gun ownership and handling are viewed as a solemn right and responsibility in the country set....

that was ingrained in me as a child, first by my father, then further reinforced in the required hunter safety course I took as an adolescent.

that respect was in turn taught to my own children. you must also show children what a gun can do, not just tell them. a watermelon works well for that.

that does not equal keeping my gun locked up where I can t access it quickly in an emergency.

[dales]

My daughters both own firearms (I started taking them to the gun range when they each reached 12).

My 9-year old grandson has gone to the range many times and has fired both handguns and rifles.

His mother and father have no problem with this!

A proud legacy of freedom thanks to:

THE SECOND AMENDMENT TO THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION

bite me, England!

[Big RR]

Dales--9 seems a bit young but if the range is properly supervised, I don't really have a problem with it. If kids live around guns they should be taught about gun safety and how to handle them; it can prevent many accidents.

I first shot rifles and shotguns in scout camp at around 11, and the range officers stressed safety and squelched any horseplay immediately.

[oldr_n_wsr]

I'm guessing I first fired a rifle (.22) around the age of 10. Safety, safety, safety was pushed, pushed, pushed. Bows and arrows I started shooting around 7yo. Again, safety was pushed.

[dales]

Dales--9 seems a bit young but if the range is properly supervised, I don't really have a problem with it. If kids live around guns they should be taught about gun safety and how to handle them; it can prevent many accidents.
I first shot rifles and shotguns in scout camp at around 11, and the range officers stressed safety and squelched any horseplay immediately.

Of course!

I did the same with both my daughters, and my older daughter and son-in-law have done this with my grandson.

[BoSoxGal]

I was raised around guns and my siblings and I were taught responsible gun use and rules of gun safety from a very early age; I have no problem with the concept.

However, after almost half a century on the planet and many years experience of the vast range of the human condition, I've found stupidity and lack of common sense are rampant, and far too many folks who buy guns for themselves (or their 5 year old sons) don't engage in responsible prevention of gun related tragedies.

[Big RR]

Which is why I think people should be encouraged by organizations like the NRA to think of gun ownership like a privilege which brings serious responsibilities with it. Too many ignore those responsibilities.

[rubato]

I'm sure the 11-year old's father bragged how he had taught 'his boy' gun safety at an early age too. Every crappy driver on the road thinks he is Michael-fucking-Shumacher, says it too.


yrs,
rubato

[Big RR]

In this case I'm inclined to agree with you, but there are plenty of gun owners who behave responsibly, who store and secure their guns properly, and who teach their kids gun safety and make certain they understand what could happen if the guns are mishandled. We could cut down on problems if more people approached gun ownership that way. Just as you can be a perfectly good driver without being a professional, you can own guns and behave responsibly.

The point is, regardless of what some would like, we are not going to get rid of private gun ownership in the foreseeable future; so the best thing is to encourage responsible gun ownership.

[rubato]

Bad drivers get tickets, repair bills, and pay higher insurance rates.


Bad gun owners get more guns.


Requiring all gun owners to have insurance and letting the ins. companies decide how to set rates would provide a feedback mechanism for responsible behavior where we have none now.


If someone with a poor driving record or a 17-year old bought a 350hp sports car he would have to pay punishing insurance rates.

But you can walk into a gun store and buy any handgun you like. .40 S&W, .44, with only the difference in price of the guns.


If Dylan Root had to pay an insurance differential on a .45cal based on being very young with no history of responsible gun ownership he might have only been able to afford a .22 short or he may have been directed to a program for young shooters where they can rent guns at the range, take gun safety courses, and build up experience credits with the insurers (like taking a drivers training course would reduce insurance cost for a new driver).


yrs,
rubato

[Gob]

Chicago: A six-year-old boy accidentally shot and killed his three-year-old brother while playing "cops and robbers" with a gun their father told investigators he had obtained illegally from a gang member.

Chicago police say the two boys were playing on Saturday evening when the older boy reached on top of the refrigerator and grabbed the loaded hand gun and then accidentally shot Eian Santiago in the face.

The boy was rushed to a hospital, where he died later that night.

Police subsequently arrested the boys' father, 25-year-old Michael Santiago, on a felony child endangerment charge.


During a court hearing on Sunday, Assistant State's Attorney Joseph DiBella said Santiago bought the gun off the street, kept it "wrapped in pyjama pants on top of the refrigerator" and even showed the boy where the gun was.

"He kept the gun for protection because he was a former gang member who snitched on a gang member in a murder trial," the Chicago Tribune reported DiBella as saying in court.
Santiago had told police about the gun in a videotaped confession, DiBella said.

[Scooter]

Why isn't the father being charged with felony murder? The facts in this case would satisfy that charge as much or more than other prosecutions that used it.

[BoSoxGal]

I agree Scooter, and can't help but wonder if the politics of the NRA are influencing how prosecutors charge these cases.

[rubato]

"....

"He kept the gun for protection .... "

That worked about as well as it ever does.


yrs,
rubato