Taking the Lord's name in vain

[MajGenl.Meade]

I found it to be an interesting exercise to read James and Galatians as being two sides of an argument between two strongly disagreeing chaps - one a stalwart of the Jerusalem (i.e. Jewish) Christian community and the other very much influenced by his mission to Gentiles. You might even think they didn't like each other and wonder which one was written first (Galatians, I trow).

It almost prefigures arguments between the Roman church and Protestants on the issue of faith vs. works. Luther's difficulty seems to have been that James didn't speak about Jesus enough - and of course that James argues Abraham's faith was shown in works whereas Paul argued that Abraham's faith was exhibited in believing God. If one reads how Abraham reacted to God's promise of a child, superficially one might think Paul hadn't quite got it right. Similarly, a superficial reading of James seems to elevate works too highly. Fact is (IMO and that of others), both are correct. Abraham expressed his faith in his belief and in his works when he stepped out of the door with Isaac to make a sacrifice.

James is a fine book - it doesn't intend to expound the ground of salvation but reveals what saving faith should look like in the world. It is entirely consistent with the Luther quote above: To think, "If faith justifies without works, let us work nothing," is to despise the grace of God. Idle faith is not justifying faith. In this terse manner Paul presents the whole life of a Christian. Inwardly it consists in faith towards God, outwardly in love towards our fellow-men.

That there is considerable dissonance between Luther's high view in that quote and his life (many of his 'works' are nasty, to say the least) does not undermine the premise.

[kmccune]

Good works require effort and there are no end to the "enablers " who would send you out in the field ,while actually doing little themselves ,the point do something ,dont just do nothing because you can only do little .Every little bit adds to te cause .The lesson of "mortality" is a harsh one ,but there are few who choose to face it .

[Burning Petard]

."The lesson of "mortality" is a harsh one ,but there are few who choose to face it ."

Yes indeed. This prompts me to digress a bit. Dietrich Bonhoeffer was one who choose to face it full on and accept the consequences. Yesterday my wife proposed that there are in the USofA thoughtful, moral, skilled individuals who will be taking a very careful look at the leadership of the country next spring. If the GOP wins in November, she fears there will be those individuals, perhaps acting in concert, who will make a choice similar to that of Bonhoeffer.

snailgate

[Big RR]

I don't think that's something to fear , more something to hope for, if there is a president trump.

[MajGenl.Meade]

If the GOP wins in November, she fears there will be those individuals, perhaps acting in concert, who will make a choice similar to that of Bonhoeffer.

So they will join the FBI (since there is no Abwehr any more) and inform Britain of US plans? And then be arrested and put into a prison camp and then be executed?

Did Bonhoeffer make a choice of which I am unaware? (Odds are that he did, of course)

[Bicycle Bill]

If the GOP wins in November, she fears there will be those individuals, perhaps acting in concert, who will make a choice similar to that of Bonhoeffer.

So they will join the FBI (since there is no Abwehr any more) and inform Britain of US plans? And then be arrested and put into a prison camp and then be executed?

Did Bonhoeffer make a choice of which I am unaware? (Odds are that he did, of course)

Bonhoeffer (who was an anti-Nazi dissident and known for opposing Hitler's euthanasia program and genocidal persecution of the Jews) did join the Abwehr through a friend, supposedly because of his ecumenical contacts that would be of value and would prevent him from being called to active military service; it is to be assumed that this is how he became fully cognizant of the Nazi atrocities and caused him to became a more integral part of the German resistance movement.  Even so, I think you've got Bonhoeffer mixed up with Admiral Wilhelm Canaris who, according to evidence and information compiled after WWII, *DID* act almost as a double-agent against Hitler and the Nazi regime during the earlier part of the war through his contacts with British Intelligence in occupied France and neutral Spain.

Both Bonhoeffer and Canaris were associated with the "Operation Valkyrie" plot to assassinate Hitler; they were tried for "high treason" and executed by hanging (along with several others) in April 1945, less than a month before Hitler's suicide and the fall of the Third Reich.

-"BB"-

[MajGenl.Meade]

The intent of my post was to bring out from you Snail what all these US citizens are going to be doing come November, if Trump wins. You suggest they'll do a Bonhoeffer.

Exactly what is it that they will do then? Write books?

PS BB Bonhoeffer attempted to interest Britain in German resistance but was rebuffed.

[Burning Petard]

MGM, I have no desire to attract the attention of nosuchagency. Let those who have eyes see.

[kmccune]

Makes you wonder why the "Reich " had any credibility at all .
The sad thing is ,if Hitler hadnt been such a bungler ,the Reich would probably still be with us ,I am kinda on the fence about the so called American " Civil " war ,If Lee hadnt bungled ,its hard to imagine how much longer that senseless conflict would have raged on . It did accomplish one good thing however it quickly ended the servitude of people to to less deserving peoples in the US .Now if the momentum had kept its pace and the country hadnt had to suffer through the hateful post bellum period things would have been better ,but sadly even today ,prejudice rears its ugly "Hydra " like heads .