Colour me surprised

[Bicycle Bill]

Now THAT'S some kind of oppression.

If that's oppression I wish someone would oppress me too.

-"BB"-

[RayThom]

I see this as not being about the money but the principle. He made a stand regardless how unpopular and he now has to live with it.

More power to him.

[Econoline]

I think this here is relevant...

• AS A VETERAN, what do I think about Colin Kaepernick's decision to sit during the National Anthem?
  
  As a veteran?
  
  Very well, as a veteran then, this is what I believe:
  
  The very first thing I learned in the military is this: Respect is a two-way street. If you want respect, true respect, sincere respect, then you have to GIVE IT.
  
  If you want respect, you have to do the things necessary to earn it each and every single day. There are no short cuts and no exceptions.
  
  Respect cannot be compelled.
  
  Respect cannot be bought.
  
  Respect cannot be inherited.
  
  Respect cannot be demanded at the muzzle of a gun or by beating it into somebody or by shaming them into it. Can not. You might get what you think is respect, but it's not. It's only the appearance of respect. It's fear, it's groveling, it's not respect. Far, far too many people both in and out of the military, people who should emphatically know better, do not understand this simple fact: there is an enormous difference between fear and respect.
  
  Respect has to be earned.
  
  Respect. Has. To. Be. Earned.
  
  Respect has to be earned every day, by every word, by every action.
  
  It takes a lifetime of words and deeds to earn respect.
  
  It takes only one careless word, one thoughtless action, to lose it.
  
  You have to be worthy of respect. You have to live up to, or at least do your best to live up to, those high ideals -- the ones America supposedly embodies, that shining city on the hill, that exceptional nation we talk about, yes, that one. To earn respect you have to be fair. You have to have courage. You must embrace reason. You have to know when to hold the line and when to compromise. You have to take responsibility and hold yourself accountable. You have to keep your word. You have to give respect, true respect, to get it back.
  
  There are no short cuts. None.
  
  Now, any veteran worth the label should know that. If they don't, then likely they weren't much of a soldier to begin with and you can tell them I said so.
  
  IF Kaepernick doesn't feel his country respects him enough for him to respect it in return, well, then you can't MAKE him respect it.
  
  You can not make him respect it.
  
  If you try to force a man to respect you, you'll only make him respect you less.
  
  With threats, by violence, by shame, you can maybe compel Kaepernick to stand up and put his hand over his heart and force him to be quiet. You might.
  
  But that's not respect.
  
  It's only the illusion of respect.
  
  You might force this man into the illusion of respect. You might. Would you be satisfied then? Would that make you happy? Would that make you respect your nation, the one which forced a man into the illusion of respect? If THAT's what matters to you, the illusion of respect, then you're not talking about freedom or liberty. You're not talking about the United States of America. Instead you're talking about every dictatorship from the Nazis to North Korea where people are lined up and MADE to salute with the muzzle of a gun pressed to the back of their necks.
  
  That, that illusion of respect, is not why I wore a uniform.
  
  That's not why I held up my right hand and swore the oath and put my life on the line for my country.
  
  That, that illusion of respect, is not why I am a veteran.
  
  Not so a man should be forced to show respect he doesn't feel.
  
  That's called slavery and I have no respect for that at all.
  
  If Americans want this man to respect America, then first they must respect him.
  
  If America wants the world's respect, it must be worthy of respect.
  
  America must be worthy of respect. Torture, rendition, indefinite detention, unarmed black men shot down in the street every day, poverty, inequality, voter suppression, racism, bigotry in every form, obstructionism, blind patriotism, NONE of those things are worthy of respect from anybody -- least of all an American.
  
  But doesn't it also mean that if Kaepernick wants respect, he must give it first? Give it to America? Be worthy of respect himself? Stand up, shut up, and put his hand over his heart before Old Glory?
  
  No. It doesn't.
  
  Respect doesn't work that way.
  
  Power flows from positive to negative. Electricity flows from greater potential to lesser.
  
  The United States isn't a person, it's a vast construct, a framework of law and order and civilization designed to protect the weak from the ruthless and after more than two centuries of revision and refinement it exists to provide in equal measure for all of us the opportunity for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The United States is POWER.
  All the power rests with America. Just as it does in the military chain of command. And like that chain of command, like the electrical circuit described above, respect must flow from greater to lesser FIRST before it can return.
  
  To you the National Anthem means one thing, to Kaepernick it means something else. We are all shaped and defined by our experiences and we see the world through our own eyes. That's freedom. That's liberty. The right to believe differently. The right to protest as you will. The right to demand better. The right to believe your country can BE better, that it can live up to its sacred ideals, and the right to loudly note that it has NOT. The right to use your voice, your actions, to bring attention to the things you believe in. The right to want more for others, freedom, liberty, justice, equality, and RESPECT.
  
  A true veteran might not agree with Colin Kaepernick, but a true veteran would fight to the death to protect his right to say what he believes.
  
  You don't like what Kaepernick has to say? Then prove him wrong, BE the nation he can respect.
  
  It's really just that simple.

(source)

[Big RR]

Now THAT'S some kind of oppression.

If that's oppression I wish someone would oppress me too.

-"BB"-

BB and MG--I once saw a black judge interviewed on TV; the guy was suspected of shoplifting in an high end store and was roughed up a bit by the cops until they found out he was a judge. One thing he said stick with me, "When I was first arrested I was just a nigger to them", and he went on to describe how black people who aren't judges (and who don't make $114 million) are treated. All that money or not, I think this is what he was referring to.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Power flows from positive to negative. Electricity flows from greater potential to lesser.

[off topic]Um, uh, if we are talking about electron flow, no it doesn't. Electrons flow toward a higher potenial. "Holes" (the spot where an electron was) flow to the lesser potential. But holes are not particles, they are the "place" where an electron was.

Just a little anal-retentivity on my part.[/off topic]

On the subjact at hand. If he wants to sit during the national anthem, then he can sit. And he will have to face the consequences and not whine about them.

And comparing this to Ali is a sidetrack. Ali did none of his protesting during his matches nor right before. He usually did all his opinions at press conferences or impromtu speeches.

[oldr_n_wsr]

I wonder if Mr Kaepernick did this as a built in excuse. He knows he is close to being cut, now he can blame his "moral stand" as the "real" reason he was cut and not the fact that he hasn't played that good.

[Scooter]

Sure, because it's just so much easier for white people to believe that black people are using racism as an excuse for their own failings, rather than believe that racism exists.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Sure, because it's just so much easier for white people to believe that black people are using racism as an excuse for their own failings, rather than believe that racism exists.

Never said that nor did think that.

[Scooter]

I guess Jackie Robinson was just making excuses for his failures as a ballplayer when he said the same things Kaepernick is saying now:

An athlete addressing the race issue in the country is not new. But it’s still fascinating to see how the legendary Jackie Robinson, in his 1972 autobiography, “I Never Had It Made,” described the moment when he realized that he could not “stand and sing the anthem,” nor “salute the flag. ”

Interesting, huh? Well, after reading that, if you’re have a “hmmm” moment, it’s because what Robinson wrote mirrors almost exactly the recent statements made by San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick.

In his book, Robinson didn’t hold back and pointed out the country’s ongoing racism, classism, and bigotry:

“There I was, the black grandson of a slave, the son of a black sharecropper, part of a historic occasion, a symbolic hero to my people. The air was sparkling. The sunlight was warm. The band struck up the national anthem. The flag billowed in the wind. It should have been a glorious moment for me as the stirring words of the national anthem poured from the stands. Perhaps, it was, but then again, perhaps, the anthem could be called the theme song for a drama called The Noble Experiment. Today, as I look back on that opening game of my first world series, I must tell you that it was Mr. Rickey’s drama and that I was only a principal actor. As I write this twenty years later, I cannot stand and sing the anthem. I cannot salute the flag; I know that I am a black man in a white world. In 1972, in 1947, at my birth in 1919, I know that I never had it made.”

Robinson’s 1972 comments pretty much reflects what Kaepernick is saying in 2016:

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color,” Kaepernick said. “To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.”

[MajGenl.Meade]

[rubato]

So for you, is it only black people who have to be morally perfect in all respects their lives expressing total self-sacrifice before they can point out evil?

That cartoon is a lie. It is a lie for morally retarded right-wing knee-jerk racists.


yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

I wonder if Mr Kaepernick did this as a built in excuse. He knows he is close to being cut, now he can blame his "moral stand" as the "real" reason he was cut and not the fact that he hasn't played that good.

That possibility occurred to me as well, but in reflecting on it, I think it's unlikely...

I've made pretty clear that I consider the guy to be completely wrong-headed about this, but I do believe he is sincere, for the following reason:

If he is cut, (which as you point out is a very real possibility; he's nowhere near as sharp on the field as he was a few years ago, and he's also become very injury prone...he certainly isn't going to win his starting job back...) this "stand" (or "sit") (combined with his fading skills and injury history) that he's taking is going to make him pretty much Kryptonite for any other franchise in the league to pick him up...

With his recent on-field and injury record, he wouldn't have had an easy time getting picked up anyway...

You add this in, and what team is going to be interested in taking on a guy (even in a back-up role) who also brings with him this kind of high-profile PR headache?

Teams will sign players who bring a lot of PR baggage if they are a star who seems to still be at the top of their game, (See Vic, Michael) but not somebody at this level in their career...

And besides, in Vic's case the bad behavior was behind him, and he was repentant about it...

Kaepernick is promising not to stand up for the national anthem until the country meets his standards of race relations perfection, so this will be continuous...

I can't imagine the management of any team wanting to bring that kind of ongoing distraction and fan alienation into their clubhouse, especially for a guy who really doesn't have that much to offer on the field...

[MajGenl.Meade]

So for you, is it only black people who have to be morally perfect in all respects their lives expressing total self-sacrifice before they can point out evil?

That cartoon is a lie. It is a lie for morally retarded right-wing knee-jerk racists.

yrs,
rubato

A) No.

B)

[rubato]

So for you, is it only black people who have to be morally perfect in all respects their lives expressing total self-sacrifice before they can point out evil?

That cartoon is a lie. It is a lie for morally retarded right-wing knee-jerk racists.

yrs,
rubato

A) No.

B)

So, now that I have clarified things morally and intellectually you are pretending to repudiate what you posted?



yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

So, now that I have clarified things morally and intellectually

LOL

[MajGenl.Meade]

So, now that I have clarified things morally and intellectually you are pretending to repudiate what you posted?
yrs,
rubato

Tiresome. You did no such thing. You posted as fact an opinion that was as errant as it was predictable.

[Guinevere]

Channeling Sue ------ what, do you all have a problem with capitalism? Do you think because someone makes a large salary, they give up the right to protest and speak out? Does one have to experience racism, or be poor and downtrodden, to speak up against it?

Interesting view of the world, from a bunch of white males, who all live relatively privileged lives.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Yeah, it's a joke. A cartoon.

Do the howls of approval for naked statues of Donald Trump mean the howlers approve of body shaming?

Are cartoons fair and balanced?

Get a grip

[Guinevere]

I'm not commenting on your cartoon, I'm commenting on the words of the posters here. Get a grip yourself, it's not all about you....

[Lord Jim]

Do you think because someone makes a large salary, they give up the right to protest and speak out?

There it is again...

That inference that somebody around here has said that Kaepernick didn't have the "right" to do what he did...(and apparently plans to continue doing)

Hit it Ray:



And just as he has the right to engage in this ignorant and disrespectful behavior, others have the right to condemn him for doing so...

Just because somebody is exercising a right, doesn't mean that everyone else has some sort of obligation to laud them for it, or to withhold criticism...

Kaepernick isn't the only one who has "rights"...