Otto's Woes

[dales]

the British and U.S. soldiers exchanged insults

I would love to have heard some of them.

[Bicycle Bill]

the British and U.S. soldiers exchanged insults

I would love to have heard some of them.

-"BB"-

[Scooter]

Thou unwholesome motley-minded malt-horse!

Shakespearean insult generator

[rubato]

The family has refused an autopsy. Unfortunately, because any thing they learn could be valuable both in understanding the NK mentality and as an aid to prosecution in the Hague.

They might learn something from hair samples if it is long enough that it dates back to the time of his injury.


yrs,
rubato

[BoSoxGal]

He had a buzz cut coming off the airplane in a coma, so hair would show nothing useful.

[Crackpot]

body hair still works

[dales]

The family has refused an autopsy. Unfortunately, because any thing they learn could be valuable both in understanding the NK mentality and as an aid to prosecution in the Hague.



yrs,
rubato

Agreed!

I'm quite puzzled by this. So many unanswered questions and so few answers.

[Big RR]

I agree it is unfortunate, and I'm not sure why they would do this; perhaps they have reason to believe that it might show his condition was accidental (or perhaps intentional on his part), and they don't want to give N Korea that satisfaction? Or maybe they don't want their son to be a poster boy for Team Trump? Or maybe they just want to bury him and let him rest in peace without seeing his name and actions bandied about in the press when the results come out? Personally, I respect their decision and hope they cremate him to avoid an exhumation court battle in the future.

[BoSoxGal]

body hair still works

I don't think you are correct about that, as body hair has a very short growth cycle before it sheds and is replaced - a few months at most. He was in a coma for 16+ months so they'd be trying to find a toxin from that long ago, it wouldn't be present in body hair.

I'm open to seeing any scientific evidence you have to prove otherwise, but I've been trained by forensic experts on this stuff because hair testing is a big part of criminal law and as both defense and prosecutor I had to be familiar with and question scientists about it in court hearings of a number of cases I handled.

[Scooter]

I don't have any scientific evidence to back it up, but I have often heard that they will use pubic hair when hair on the head is too short to be sampled or be of use.

[BoSoxGal]

Yes, but again, the shed cycle of pubic hair is also just a couple of months. They'd need hair that was in the follicle at the time he was drugged. Highly unlikely to find any body hair 16 months later - plus accurate hair testing for drugs requires far more than one hair, they usually take @ 100.

[Scooter]

Cool. thanks, I now learned something new. Hopefully I'll never need to use the knowledge

[rubato]

For head hair we usually took a sample which was about the diameter of a pencil. Being the considerate person I am I would take smaller amounts from several locations so the result would not be unaesthetic.
But this was 20 years ago. One advantage of drug (and other) testing of hair are that the drug or metabolites are embedded in the shaft of hair when it is formed and cannot be removed by washing your hair. Another is that by sectioning the hair sample you can get a rough chronology of drug (or 'other') exposure. (If the sample is collected carefully)



yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

I agree it is unfortunate, and I'm not sure why they would do this; perhaps they have reason to believe that it might show his condition was accidental (or perhaps intentional on his part), and they don't want to give N Korea that satisfaction? Or maybe they don't want their son to be a poster boy for Team Trump? Or maybe they just want to bury him and let him rest in peace without seeing his name and actions bandied about in the press when the results come out? Personally, I respect their decision and hope they cremate him to avoid an exhumation court battle in the future.

Their son was in custody, what could he have done which was intentional?


yrs,
rubato

[Crackpot]

Dive off the top bunk?

[Lord Jim]

Smash your head into the cement wall as hard as you can...

[Crackpot]

You know prisoners never ever find a way to commit suicide.

[dales]

Me thinks it was a botched attempt at trying to hang oneself.

His brain was starved for oxygen (not long enough for death to occur) which resulted in his comatose state.

This might've happened months ago.

A thorough autopsy would answer many questions.

Doesn't look like that's going to happen.

[BoSoxGal]

I will respect their decision to forego an autopsy so long as they don't go forward and continue to draw attention to themselves and to Otto's death. The only thing they can reasonably complain about is the lack of due process in North Korea and the harshness of the sentence imposed. There is simply zero evidence that North Korea is responsible for this young man's death.

MANY Americans in our jails and prisons die every year and where is the public outrage over them? Pot, kettle. Hypocrisy. Etc.

[dales]

Comparing conditions in US prisons to those in North Korea is quite a stretch.