More Class From Our Classy so-called President...

[Lord Jim]

Nice to see you posting Darren...

You may have noticed we're a little thin on Trump defenders around here...

[Darren]

I may attempt to explain what's going on with Trump. As for defending him, it's just business as they often say.

[Bicycle Bill]

Trump is a promoter which means he's a marketer. That's also why he beat Clinton. Marketing is about getting attention. Understand that and you may start to understand Trump.The non-stop attention from the media is why he won the presidency. He's the quintessential RONCO president and the energizer bunny combined. But wait! There's more!

Darren, you may be correct.  Ron Popeil and his 'in your face' style of marketing sold a lot of apple peelers, tomato slicers, 'pocket fisherman' fishing poles, Gyps-you knives, and God-only-knows what else.  But despite all the shit he sold, all the ads he made, and the way he was on TV more often than re-runs of "I Love Lucy", there ain't too many people buying or using these today — because when you get right down to it, crap is still crap.

I'm hoping Trump's administration runs a similar 'here today and gone tomorrow' course.

-"BB"-

[Darren]

I'm still amazed at people misjudging Trump. I'll grant you it's tough to discern what's happening. The same thing happened during the campaign. How did the man blow out the entire Republican field and then win when the polls said he wouldn't? That's a rhetorical question BTW. The same thing is happening now.

What I found interesting during the campaign was an org chart of his businesses and who filled the executive positions running those businesses. In the early summer based on running into a Democratic field worker with a Burrelle folder stuffed with newspaper clippings and numerous uninvited conversations at the Pittsburgh VA hospital, I believed Trump would win. I made money betting when the polls showed otherwise and the overseas bookies were saying the odds were 50:1 against him. Savvy people misjudged him then. Same now.

[Guinevere]

His nature, "skills," and "abilities" are consistent and always have been. More accurately, the nation's response to him was misjudged, in part because of wiling suspension of belief, and because that's what a grifter does - they con you.

[Darren]

Another example of "What's one man's trash is another man's treasure." I'm amazed the media, Clinton and others haven't figured that out. FWIW, one of Soros' organizations did a poll to understand the phenomenon. https://pure.coventry.ac.uk/ws/portalfi ... l/12160855 The following photograph is a summary of the attitude toward Clinton by the deplorables, in this case coal miners, before the election. That's Clinton in the Scooby van leaving Williamson, WV.

[ex-khobar Andy]

Yes because the right (read: Trump) successfully sold the 'climate change is a Chinese hoax' and 'if it weren't for the evil EPA coal would be just fine' lines to WV and eastern KY coal folk. And Clinton had the balls to say that because coal was going down the tubes, like buggy whips and brick-and-mortar retail, we would have to find a replacement for those communities. This was translated by the scammers of the right into 'we're coming for your coal jobs.' The theme movie for the campaign was Lies, Sex and Access Hollywood Videotape.

[Darren]

Andy, my contacts came mostly from WV and PA. One that was extremely telling was a WWII Navy vet at the VA hospital in Pittsburgh. I thought it would be interesting to talk about the ships he'd served on. He was having none of that. Instead he launched into a rant about Clinton. I didn't mention the election. He claimed to have voted for Democrats twice (different states) in the last two elections. He did everything except froth at the mouth. There was no question that he considered Clinton to be a crook. With one exception of a former member of the National Guard, every other ex-member of the military that held a security clearance and that I talked to, condemned her over the emails.

After that I watched the attendance at Trump rallies especially around Pittsburgh. All of them were standing room only with long lines to get in. In the end Clinton still won Allegheny County but with much less votes than Obama garnered. That gave Trump Pennsylvania.

After the vet's rant ended, a woman sitting nearby was called for her appointment. As she got up and left she said, "I'm voting for Trump too!" As I said before I made money betting on the outcome of the election when we were assured it was in the bag for Clinton. Based on what I saw and heard, it wasn't going to happen.

[Big RR]

Daren--that sort of BS can sway people in an election--we've seen that. But what happens when those who gave him their votes realize that he doesn't have their backs, or anything else? Do ou honestly believe someone can successfully govern by doing nothing but yelling "bullshit"?

and that's the problem, as president he has shown himself as more or less incapable of doing anything--and those voted for him cannot miss that. Or if they can, then I seriously fear for democracy as a for of government if people would rather rant than solve problems.

[Darren]

I have a bone to pick with the media. After pursuing Trump all the way to the finish, they haven't let up. What is going on in DC? Obviously little to nothing in Congress which may or may not be a good things. What the media doesn't seem to report in detail is what's happening in the executive branch. So far what I've been able to glean parallels Trump's handling of his business. As an example, if it didn't work out as a business, he moved on. I'm picking up similar actions on his part as President. I suspect Trump will remake the executive branch somewhat like that which the Hoover chaired commission proposed to Truman. That will take time. FWIW those focused on Congress and Trump's tweets are missing the action in the the center ring.

[ex-khobar Andy]

You have two points there Darren. The one I think is valid is the extent to which Dems misjudged the sour mood of the electorate which, because of the nature of the electoral college (for example, a single popular vote in Alaska being worth about three times a single popular vote in California) translated into a victory for Trump. You forecast that correctly, and most of us did not.

About those e mails. The only reason they were such a factor is that the drum-banging right made them, successfully, such an issue. Dumb of Clinton to do that although there has never been any suggestion that her private server resulted in any leakage of intelligence to others. Psephologists will long debate how one side managed to make something so inconsequential into a major electoral issue while the other side was not able to make anything of the opponent's actual, moral and spiritual bankruptcy which a reasonable person might think would be a turn-off for the religious right. Apparently not so.

I did spend a lot of time (well, OK, three or four visits) in Eastern KY coal country around the Obama Romney election and was surprised to see the extent of Obama hatred. I really should not have been surprised had I thought about it, because of course unlike retail (see my post above) the effect of the reduction in an industry was across a community and not spread out. I had one friend in Pikeville who told me that she had retired there because of the hills and hollers but was afraid to open her mouth about the wholesale rape of the land through hilltop removal for coal, so the population was not monolithic. But the fact remains that coal mining in PA, KY and WV has been in decline for years: and I am willing to bet that Clinton's email problem was not the first thought on the WV miner's mind in your pic.

[Bicycle Bill]

Darren, by your own admission —
'After that I watched the attendance at Trump rallies especially around Pittsburgh. All of them were standing room only with long lines to get in.'
and
'After the vet's rant ended, a woman sitting nearby was called for her appointment. As she got up and left she said, "I'm voting for Trump too!' As I said before I made money betting on the outcome of the election when we were assured it was in the bag for Clinton. Based on what I saw and heard, it wasn't going to happen.'

So what you're saying is that you examined one particular sample set and statements by a couple of random individuals like the old lady at the VA hospital, and from that you made the assessment that conventional wisdom was wrong and that the pollsters, the media, and everybody else didn't know what they were talking about.  That's like looking at a single fossilized bone of a previously unseen specimen and trying to extrapolate the entire skeleton and envision the original animal.

I'm sure that if you had attended or observed any Hillary rallies or events you would have seen that her supporters were just as numerous and just as fervent. And that's an indisputable fact. The numbers don't lie; THREE MILLION more people voted for Clinton than voted for the unbalanced nutjob with the little hands, the foul mouth, and the bad rug.
(as an aside, beleaguered Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein should invoke the POTUS and demand exoneration; if it's OK for Trump to 'grab 'em by the pussy' and then brag about it then it should be OK for Weinstein too ... after all, fair's fair)

I will agree with you on one thing, though. The continual bleating by the media that Trump didn't stand a chance — along with the continuing rise in voter apathy itself — might have had some effect on the election as well. Had all the people who could see through the bullshit and rejected Trump's vision of a "Great America ( For Whites Only)" showed up at the polls, instead of believing that the result was already a fait accompli — or been allowed to vote once they got there; over the previous decade the Repugnicans have managed to cram Draconian voter ID laws onto the books in several key states which threw up unnecessary roadblocks in the way of many of the elderly and 'working poor', if not disenfranchised them entirely — things would have undoubtedly been different last November.

-"BB"-

[Darren]

I watched the Clinton rallies which for some odd reason seemed to diminish in frequency and attendees as the election neared. At end some of her rallies were held in gyms. There was also an apparent attempt to conceal the scant turnout. There appeared to be far more enthusiasm shown by Trump supporters. As I mentioned that was unmistakable in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania. The Clinton campaign obviously recognized how important Pennsylvania was by staging free get out the vote concerts featuring big name stars in both Pittsburgh and Philadelphia immediate;ly before election day.

After the election reports surfaced that local party workers had tried to warn the national campaign for naught that things were close. I had an inkling of that based on the restaurant encounter. No one subscribes to Burrelles for the hell of it. During the summer I made a couple trips out to the Midwest and was surprised by the lack of Clinton yard signs. OTOH in Pennsylvania private individuals put up large Trump signs up to an including billboards some of which still remain.

As far as the popular vote I'm still curious about the California primary results especially after it was found that Wasserman Shultz and the DNC were in the tank for Clinton. Trump often appoints individuals or a commission to accomplish some task similar to his delegation of business projects. The results from the voting commission are still out. I'm surprised Sanders didn't contest California.

[ex-khobar Andy]

So far what I've been able to glean parallels Trump's handling of his business. As an example, if it didn't work out as a business, he moved on.

There's a euphemism I must admit I haven't heard before. Yes, he 'moved on' six times leaving vendors, employees and investors in the lurch.

Can we once and for all kill this 'running government like a business' trope? I want governments to serve the needs of all the people, not just those who never pay tax.

[RayThom]

And a footnote to all the above: God bless you, Robert Mueller.

Robert Mueller’s End Game: Is Trump’s Impeachment a Possibility?
https://www.thenation.com/article/rober ... ssibility/

[Darren]

So far what I've been able to glean parallels Trump's handling of his business. As an example, if it didn't work out as a business, he moved on.

There's a euphemism I must admit I haven't heard before. Yes, he 'moved on' six times leaving vendors, employees and investors in the lurch.

Can we once and for all kill this 'running government like a business' trope? I want governments to serve the needs of all the people, not just those who never pay tax.

Trump had to have run into the same wall every President has when they realized the mass of regulations not to mention the reality of working with Congress. Recently things were changed to allow dismissal of VA employees for cause. Trump kept Obama's secretary with new powers. Initially there were reports of entire agencies being axed, That remains to be seen. I'm not sure if a commission has been established to make recommendations. Reports of the federal government's demise are not believable. However that doesn't mean some agencies won't be reduced in manpower and scope.

[ex-khobar Andy]

5USC75 has for years given federal agencies the power to fire employees for cause or other reasons relating to the effective operation of the agency. I don't know if VA employees were a special case. The code gave requirements that there be a specified notice and a written process such that the employee had a chance to answer whatever the reasons were which seems to me like due process. Contrast this with the situation in much of private business where the employer can fire whom he pleases when he pleases for whatever reasons he pleases except discriminatory on the grounds of race, sex, age etc. and believe me I know from personal experience how employers get around these little legal niceties.

[Darren]

New rules for the VA. Now you see him, POOF! Now you don't.

The saga of Brian Hawkins. The former director of Washington, D.C.’s veterans hospital was rehired after he appealed his dismissal through the Merit Systems Protection Board, has been fired again under new regulations enacted by the Trump administration. Unsterile conditions and shortages of supplies were the initial basis of the dismissal. Bonuses he handed out without justification were discovered later.

https://federalsoup.com/Articles/2017/0 ... again.aspx

“No judge who has never run a hospital and never cared for our nation’s Veterans will force me to put an employee back in a position when he allowed the facility to pose potential safety risks to our veterans,” VA Secretary David Shulkin said in a written statement. “Protecting our veterans is my most important responsibility.”

https://www.stripes.com/va-forced-to-re ... ePWFjskpdg

[Burning Petard]

" every other ex-member of the military that held a security clearance and that I talked to, condemned her over the emails."

Yep. Great emotional negatives for Hillary, and Obama. But the emails. I take that as just a public rational excuse for some other motive against the Obama administration and its Secretary of State. Trump's executives have repeatedly used private email services for official business and the Trump supporters that I have contact with just shrug their shoulders and tell me 'that's just the way it is.' The fact that China coal imports are going down have no impact on the present opinion of W.Wa. coal miners about their president. Hillary spoke the truth about coal mining. Trump promised them something beautiful with no substance. But so what. Trump is so busy working so hard for them, he doesn't even have time to play golf.

I see more truth in the last chapter and the epilogue of Ta-Nehisi Coates' recent book "We Were Eight Years in Power'. He argues that Trump has empowered white nationalist forces that are deep in American society. He calls Trump the first White president because Trump does not pretend to believe in a color blind America. But then again, that may just be my white liberal self-guilt.

snailgate

[Big RR]

I have a bone to pick with the media. After pursuing Trump all the way to the finish, they haven't let up. What is going on in DC? Obviously little to nothing in Congress which may or may not be a good things. What the media doesn't seem to report in detail is what's happening in the executive branch. So far what I've been able to glean parallels Trump's handling of his business. As an example, if it didn't work out as a business, he moved on. I'm picking up similar actions on his part as President. I suspect Trump will remake the executive branch somewhat like that which the Hoover chaired commission proposed to Truman. That will take time. FWIW those focused on Congress and Trump's tweets are missing the action in the the center ring.

You're assuming, however, that he has the intellect (or has people around whim with that intellect, and will listen to them) and the political capital to make those changes; thus far I've seen no evidence of either. Certainly underestimating one's opponent is never a good strategy, but neither is treating everything the person does as part of some brilliant Machiavellian plan. By all means keep an eye on what is going on, but the promoter Trump is his own worst enemy, as he has to be at the forefront of everything. Unlike his businesses, those in government will neither have his back or jump when he tells them to, and I sincerely doubt he will make many changes, if any, of real consequence.

The one positive Trump offers to the dems, however, is the chance to reclaim their roots. the party of the working man has become somewhat elitist and governed by special interests, and has turned its back (or at least it seems that way) on a large part of that base. From the ACA to many other programs, the dems have put forth policies that are in the interest of all, but somehow has refused to try and sell it to its base, letting the repubs (who only see them as fodder for their factories)control the discussion---they need to reach out more and make sure the people think the dems have their collective backs. I hope they learned, but time will tell.