People are Going Ape Over DeSantis Comment

[Crackpot]

I was speaking in generalities not to this specific situation. (Ben Carson would be the perfect example of what i’m Talking about). From what I have heard Jim is right on the money on this one.

[Sue U]

FML, I have to agree with both Jim and Meade in the same thread. Well, I get to agree with Big RR, too, so there's that.

[Guinevere]

FML, I have to agree with both Jim and Meade in the same thread. Well, I get to agree with Big RR, too, so there's that.

Ditto.

Well said, Meade, in particular. I've never heard anyone use the phrase "monkey up."

The fact that several of you (repeatedly) refuse to acknowledge that language and word usage changes and evolves over time will just leave you as irrelevant old white men. And I'm OK with that

[Lord Jim]

Apparently, even the Fox News anchor that interviewed DeSantis when he used the term "got it":

Fox News Anchor Rebukes Ron DeSantis for ‘Monkey’ Comment About Black Opponent

“We do not condone this language,” says Fox News anchor Sandra Smith

Fox News host Sandra Smith moved quickly to distance herself and Fox News from remarks made on air by Rep. Ron DeSantis after the newly appointed GOP candidate for governor of Florida urged voters not to “monkey” up the decision by electing his African-American opponent, Andrew Gillum.

Gillum, the mayor of Tallahassee, is the first African-American to ever receive a major party nomination for governor of the sunshine state.

“We do not condone this language and wanted to make our viewers aware that he has since clarified his statement,” Smith said on air on Wednesday, shortly after DeSantis’ appearance, while also noting that “Mayor Gillum will be on with Shepard Smith today at 3 p.m.” She then read out a statement the DeSantis campaign issued shortly after the incident.

https://www.thewrap.com/fox-news-anchor ... -language/

[Joe Guy]

I think I'm a victim. Everybody (except maybe BB) is conspiring against me for my opinion. You're not directly attacking me but there's a dog whistle being blown to subtly alert others to how wrong I am.

My opinion hasn't changed, though. I wouldn't have known how devastating it was for DeSantis to say, "monkey it up" if I hadn't been alerted by the victim police on TV and here. And apparently, in one person's opinion, who's name I won't mention, I'll just give initials - BSG, believes that because I didn't understand that what DeSantis said was racially insensitive and intended to offend, I'm a racist.

Maybe the constant rush by so many people to portray themselves as victims has affected me and I've forgotten how to be offended by details I wouldn't have otherwise noticed. I need to learn to be offended more often.

It doesn't even matter now if I'm right. Monkey it up is now officially a racist term and will not be tolerated by people who are always right. And now, whenever I hear the word monkey, if I'm a decent person, I should associate it with black people and racial injustice.

It's interesting how our language devolves with time.

[Big RR]

It's interesting how our language devolves with time.

But that is exactly what language does. Terms which were "acceptable" cease to be so, and vice versa. I recall the kids' rhyme "eenie, meenie, miney, moe" before the second line was "Catch a tiger by the toe", using the n-word instead. Now I presume you would not state that because it was once "acceptable" (or acceptable enough that young kids used it to choose up sides), it should still be acceptable. But what you call "devolving" I ca;ll evolving, or simply changing.

Likewise, there was a time when it was acceptable among shites to call fully grown black men "boy" (Ingrid Bergan calls Sam that in Casablanca), but times and language has changed. Ditto for "Sambo".

And context matters as well, while you might said to the Fire Chief "Chief, don't you think that's enough firewater", you wouldn't say it to a Native American. And while you might have a Puerto Rican janitor use Spic and Span to clean the floor, you'd never use the former without the latter.

Face it, it's not that hard to avoid offense if you try to see something through another's viewpoint and avoid unnecessary; sure there are some people who undoubtedly will see offense in everything, but most people just want to be treated with the same respect you should give everyone.

[Joe Guy]

Face it, it's not that hard to avoid offense if you try to see something through another's viewpoint and avoid unnecessary; sure there are some people who undoubtedly will see offense in everything, but most people just want to be treated with the same respect you should give everyone.

Before this happened, if a poll had been done regarding the meaning of 'monkey it up' and none of the multiple choices listed had anything to do with race, but there was an "other" that could be chosen, do you think the majority would have chosen Other?

Do you think choices would be drastically varied based on the race of the person taking the poll?

I guess we'll never know for sure. I see it as the birth of a new racist term. A redefining of a phrase, that would never had happened if DeSantis's had said it about a white democrat opponent. I know many will say, 'but he wouldn't have said it about a white person', but we don't really know that, do we? People just assume DeSantis is racist because he supports Trump.

[Big RR]

New racist term? I don't see that; I have seen and heard the terms monkey, ape, gorilla, etc. applied to black people, ordinarily as a way to stress they are more like animals than human beings. And this goes back a long way--read, e.g., some of the justifications for slavery and you'll see it--people with lots of muscles but few brains, etc.

Now I'll concede I have never heard of the term "monkey it up", but so what--it ties in to a lot of the insults thrown at black people in the past.

As for using it against a white opponent-so what. As I said above with my chief/firewater example, context is important, so the way he chose to use it can raise significant inferences about what he meant. It's not a new racist term, just a reiteration of a tired old one.

As for your last point, as my mother used to say, show me your friends and I'll show you who you really are.

eta: and one other thing, as Meade said above, it is not up to a white person to tell a black one what they should be offended by--if they are offended, that is the end of it. Now he (or anyone else) can say "I'll still use the term and don't give a damn who doesn't like I"t, but that's very different from saying "how can this offend anyone?", and they should face the consequences of what they say without trying to play dumb.

[Econoline]

To reiterate and expand on a question Jim asked, can Joe (or anyone) come up with some examples (or even one example) of DeSantis (or anyone else) using the phrase "monkey up" to mean what DeSantis says he meant: i.e., the same thing as "muck up" or "fuck up" or "screw up" or "mess up"???

No, Joe, it's not "a redefining of a phrase" if the phrase didn't exist before.

Yes, Joe, it probably is "the birth of a new racist term."




(ETA: cross-post with Big RR. Yeah, using "monkey" to describe a black person has a long history of racist use, and adding the word "up" doesn't change that at all.)

[Burning Petard]

"it is not up to a white person to tell a black one what they should be offended by--if they are offended, that is the end of it".

But there seems to be no end. IMNSHO, there is no mandated right to a life never offended. That is just one clause in my personal social contract, which is several pages long. It is a social contract, with society, populations, groups, VOTERS included. I personally may chose to offend an individual or a group and it is my relationship among them that is changed. When a Florida GOP candidate says something about his opponent, I firmly believe he does not care a fig if somebody in Delaware, Boston, or on the news panel at CNN is offended. He is communicating with a particular group in Florida for the purpose of winning the election two months away.

He knows what 'collateral damage' is in political discourse and has made his own calculations. It has been demonstrated repeatedly in the last decade that enough voters prefer liars, tax cheats, slum lords, a commander in chief who has no respect for subordinates, that I must accept the bleakest predictions from the Sage of Baltimore are now working to completion. That is also the goal of many Republican leaders--to destroy the American Federal Government in a metaphorical bathtub drowning.

Yes, I have been a long time member of the IWW and have the little red book filled with colored stamps.

snailgate.

[Econoline]

And now there's this:

GOP nominee exposed as moderator of racist Facebook page

[Big RR]

I personally may chose to offend an individual or a group and it is my relationship among them that is changed. When a Florida GOP candidate says something about his opponent, I firmly believe he does not care a fig if somebody in Delaware, Boston, or on the news panel at CNN is offended. He is communicating with a particular group in Florida for the purpose of winning the election two months away.

OK, I can't argue with that. We still have free speech in this country and he can say what he wants; I just don't think he should try to backtrack and weasel out of it.

and just as he is free to say what he wants, anyone who wants to challenge or criticize it can do so as well. do you agree?

[Sue U]

And now there's this:

GOP nominee exposed as moderator of racist Facebook page

I'm sure he'd tell you there are some very fine people posting to that page.

Also, speaking of historical materialism, I just can't hep but see this from a Marxist perspective:

[Big RR]

marist? I guess your favorite Marx Brother was not there?

Monkey business, I heard of before--and saw the film many times; I even had a toy game called (more fun than a ) "Barrel of Monkeys"

But then, on the Little Rascals, I recall Buckwheat being turned into a monkey (Or so they thought).

[Joe Guy]

eta: and one other thing, as Meade said above, it is not up to a white person to tell a black one what they should be offended by--if they are offended, that is the end of it......

That's my point! All these people with white guilt are the ones spreading this on CNN, MSNBC and others and making this into a national tragedy of immense racist proportions.

I don't have time to go on about this now but I'll be back. I can't stay here monkeying around while I've got some important things I gotta do....

[RayThom]

And how about "porch monkey?" My mom used to say that quite often until it became unfashionable to do so -- some time in the mid '70s.

Here's one now, "monkeying it up:


Joe, here are some other words you might not want to use.
http://www.rsdb.org/race/blacks

[Bicycle Bill]

The fact that several of you (repeatedly) refuse to acknowledge that language and word usage changes and evolves over time will just leave you as irrelevant old white men. And I'm OK with that

Let me know the next time — or the first time — you write a brief, a summation, or address a judge or jury in open court that includes current "language and word usage changes" like 'fleek', 'bae', 'getting woke' (as in 'becoming aware of a situation' rather than 'being roused from slumber'), or declare someone is 'guilty AF' or their actions were justified because 'my nigga' was 'bein' dissed' by some other 'cat'.

There's a reason most dictionaries list certain words as 'colloquial', 'slang', 'alternative', or 'dialect', if they list them at all.

-"BB"-

[wesw]

do you mind if I throw a monkey wrench in this thread?

hold on, my little monkey is climbing up the curtains.

kids....

politics is more fun than a barrel of monkeys these days....

and don t you dare monkey around with my words!!!!!

I m related to monkeys!

there is said it.

MONKEYS!!!!

I AM A GOSH DARNED MONKEYS UNCLE!!!!!

(but not those howler moneys...., they are worse than baboons)


there.

find the one racist comment.

read completely before beginning.

[Joe Guy]

I briefly heard someone on the radio today that I hadn't heard of previously by the name of Larry Elder and he was talking about the DeSantis comment. He was defending Desantis, so he must be an old white guy, right?

He said that Desantis - (I'm paraphrasing) being the thoughtful intelligent man that he is - was probably thinking, 'Gee, how can I take advantage of this moment to get people to vote for me that normally wouldn't. Wait, I know! I'll attempt to insult all black people!'

Some of you are probably aware that Larry Elder is a black radio talk show host. Anyway, he agrees with me about the intent of DeSantis's comment.

[Joe Guy]

I wonder if this movie is rated R for Racist...