Nominations please, for the all asshole scale

[BoSoxGal]

'somebody told me they had' is meant to modify 'witnessed' - so I meant exactly what you quoted, having heard the same account you quoted.

In any case, if I believed the account related to me enough to tell my supervisor, you can be sure I would have given my supervisor 24 hours to plan for the 'fallout' before reporting it and if I didn't see law enforcement involvement n that time frame, I'd call them myself.

Joe Paterno is on the level with God to followers of the Nittany Lions. Don't you think THEY expect more from him? All of them (that didn't report it to LE) are ASSHOLES.

Anyway, let's not jack this thread. We can start a Nittany Pedophiles thread if you want to keep arguing. Deep down, though, you know I'm right.

[loCAtek]

To BSG, as I said; according to Megan's Law. ;

Some are "standard" sex offences, others are sex offenses against children - this is pedophilia, and it is this to which I am referring since you spoke of the "priests are pedophiles myth"

I beg your pardon but that's incorrect.

From, Facts about Sex Offenders; Office of the Attorney General; State of California;
Myth: Child sexual abusers are only attracted to children [are pedophiles] and are not capable of appropriate sexual relationships.

False. While there is a small subset of child sexual abusers who are exclusively attracted to children, the majority of the individuals who sexually abuse children are (or have previously been) attracted to adults.

....

As it is with adult sex offense,it is the same with child sex offense = the crime is about power, not sexual preference.

[BoSoxGal]

The definition of a pedophile is an adult who is sexually attracted to young children.

Period.

It doesn't mean they can't also be attracted to adults.

Non-Pedophiles are those of us who can't imagine holding a sexual attraction to a young child.

Basic enough for you to comprehend, dear?

[Rick]

Why isn't anyone asking why the graduate assistant didn't go straight to the police?

\

I agree 100%.

Who in their right mind seeing someone sexually accost a minor doesn't take control of the situation and worry about apologizing later?

Go ahead touch my grandkids...

[BoSoxGal]

I agree with that, too. Had I seen this with my own eyes, Mr. Sandusky would be lucky to keep his penis. I'd take the felony in exchange for the satisfaction of doing a Lorena Bobbitt on him.

[quaddriver]

I recommend reading the grand jury report.

this guy was nailed in 98...and the cops dropped it. he was had dead to rights 3 times.

as predicted tho, the headlines today are all about....not the person who essentially created 'linebacker U', but as one pundit put it: the only person the grand jury DIDNT indict.

[loCAtek]

BSG, I can believe you or I can believe the experts.

Your logic would support the false assumption that sex offenders of boys, do it because they're homosexual.

From the same link;

Sexual gratification is often not a primary motivation for a rape offender.

True. While some offenders do seek sexual gratification from the act, sexual gratification is often not a primary motivation for a rape offender. Power, control, and anger are more likely to be the primary motivators.

[loCAtek]

4.0 OFFENDER CHARACTERISTICS
Terminology used to identify offenders ranges from pedophile to molester to
abuser. This confused terminology often clouds descriptions and identification of
offenders. Pedophilia is an adult psychosexual disorder “characterized by a preference
for prepubescent children as sexual partners” (Herek, 2003). Hebephilia is the sexual
preference of adults for adolescents. Both of these are diagnostic labels. Child sexual
abuse is sexual contact between adults and children and is an action. Not all pedophiles
or hebephiles engage in sexual contact with children; many never act upon their sexual
preference. And, not all sexual contact with children is delivered by a pedophile or
hebephile. Because diagnostic labels are not perfectly correlated with action, Finkelhor
and Araji (1986) note that descriptions such as pedophile are not very helpful and
suggest that offender sexual orientation be labeled on a scale from exclusive interest in
children to exclusive interest in adult partners. Among the cases of educator offenders
studied by Shakeshaft and Cohan (1994), there were those who were exclusively
interested in children or adolescents and those who were more likely to be exploiters of
any sexual situation, whether children or adult.

[thestoat]

Loca - can you really not understand this? It honestly isn't hard - the quote you made was just plain wrong - BSG tried to explain this to you but, again, you ignore what is being said. Let's try this carefully.

I said:

Some are "standard" sex offences, others are sex offenses against children - this is pedophilia

So - to recap - sex offences against children is pedophilia

You then say "I beg your pardon but that's incorrect"

Loca - this is most certainly NOT incorrect. You go on to talk about whether adults who are sexually attracted to children are also attracted to adults or not. Irrelevant. Completely irrelevant. Sex offences against children is pedophilia. That statement is not incorrect and for you to state that it is incorrect makes you wrong.

Can you see this now?

[loCAtek]

I believe we were speaking of what is considered factual evidence used in legal prosecution. Looking at various cases in which people were charged with sex offenses involving children, and I've met a few of these people personally; the court did not bring up whether the person was a pedophile or not. In the same manner that the court does not bring up the sexual preferences of those who commit sex offenses against adults.
A person can not be charged for being a pedophile, they can only be charged with committing a sex crime. Therefore, as in these cases like Sandusky's, the legal system is not the institution that decides if he has a psychosexual disorder.
At the emotional level, 'pedophile' is used a colloquial pejorative to anyone who commits a sex crime involving a child, however that doesn't make it diagnostic fact, just a value judgement. If you wish to be emotional, I understand, but if we going to talk about how the legal system is dealing with this, then we have to stick to the facts.

[thestoat]

Loca , again, not relevant. You said something g was incorrect whe it was factually correct. Nothing to do with cases out there or percentage of people attracted to minors. It was a simple statement that you incorrectly branded as wrong. Why not just accept your mistake and move on?

[Gob]

Loca , again, not relevant. You said something g was incorrect whe it was factually correct. Nothing to do with cases out there or percentage of people attracted to minors. It was a simple statement that you incorrectly branded as wrong. Why not just accept your mistake and move on?

No attention in doing that.

[loCAtek]

Stoat, I don't agree that value judgements are facts.

That's not scientific; a fact has to be consistently repeatable when tested.

Not all sex offenses against children are done by pedophiles; enough to make that an unacceptable label by the legal system, and certainly not a fact.

If the courts don't see it that way; I don't see it that way.

Case in point (seen with my own eyes): My Grandfather abused my mother.

She was a child.

My grandfather was not a pedophile; he was however a womanizer and fooled around constantly. His abuse of her, was a yet another form of power he enjoyed over women.


Again to quote the framers of Megan Law in the US

From, Facts about Sex Offenders; Office of the Attorney General; State of California;
Myth: Child sexual abusers are only attracted to children [are pedophiles] and are not capable of appropriate sexual relationships.

False. While there is a small subset of child sexual abusers who are exclusively attracted to children, the majority of the individuals who sexually abuse children are (or have previously been) attracted to adults.

4.0 OFFENDER CHARACTERISTICS
Terminology used to identify offenders ranges from pedophile to molester to
abuser. This confused terminology often clouds descriptions and identification of
offenders. Pedophilia is an adult psychosexual disorder “characterized by a preference
for prepubescent children as sexual partners” (Herek, 2003). Hebephilia is the sexual
preference of adults for adolescents. Both of these are diagnostic labels. Child sexual
abuse is sexual contact between adults and children and is an action. Not all pedophiles
or hebephiles engage in sexual contact with children; many never act upon their sexual
preference. And, not all sexual contact with children is delivered by a pedophile or
hebephile. Because diagnostic labels are not perfectly correlated with action, Finkelhor
and Araji (1986) note that descriptions such as pedophile are not very helpful and
suggest that offender sexual orientation be labeled on a scale from exclusive interest in
children to exclusive interest in adult partners. Among the cases of educator offenders
studied by Shakeshaft and Cohan (1994), there were those who were exclusively
interested in children or adolescents and those who were more likely to be exploiters of
any sexual situation, whether children or adult.

Once again, I can believe you or the experts who assert that rather than the issue being black and white, there is a gray area.

[thestoat]

Stoat, I don't agree that value judgements are facts.

That's not scientific; a fact has to be consistently repeatable when tested.

It is not a value judgement - it is a fact - and it is repeatable. An adult has sex with a child. This is pedophilia. A different adult has sex with a different child. Pedophilia again. It is pretty repeatable -whenever it happens it is pedophilia.

Not all sex offenses against children are done by pedophiles;

Eh? As soon as an adult commits a sex offense against a child they are a pedophile by definition.

[The Hen]

The Stoat is correct.

It is also true that these people who have committed acts of pedophilia also indulge in other varieties of sex.

But whether they are a:

Hetrosexual Pedophile;
Bi-sexual Pedophile;
Homosexual Pedophile;
Sub Dom Pedophile;
Sadomasocistic Pedophile;
Necrophiliac Pedophile;
Bestial Pedophile; or
Any Combination Of Sexual Preferences Or Deviations That You Want To Sling Into This Pedophile.

It remains that there is one commons factor that links them all in a special way.

They are all pedophiles.

They may not JUST be pedophiles, but they are pedophiles none the less and should be treated with disgust and abhorrence by society.

[dales]

From the DSM IV-TR:

From DSM IV - TR (Revised)
Sexual and Gender Identity Disorders
[These are divided in DSM into (1) Sexual Dysfunctions (2) Paraphilias (3) Gender Identity Disorders and (4) Sexual Disorder Not Otherwise Specified. Pedophilia is classed as a Paraphilia, of which DSM says: "The Paraphilias are characterized by recurrent, intense, sexual urges, fantasies, or behaviors that involve unusual objects, activities, or situations and cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. The Paraphilias include Exhibitionism, Fetishism, Frotteurism, Pedophilia, Sexual Masochism, Sexual Sadism, Transvestic Fetishism, Voyeurism, and Paraphilia Not Otherwise Specified."]

p571-2:

302.2 Pedophilia
The paraphilic focus of Pedophilia involves sexual activity with a prepubescent child (generally age 13 years or younger).

The individual with Pedophilia must be age 16 years or older and at least 5 years older than the child. For individuals in late adolescence with Pedophilia, no precise age difference is specified, and clinical judgment must be used; both the sexual maturity of the child and the age difference must be taken into account.

Individuals with Pedophilia generally report an attraction to children of a particular age range. Some individuals prefer males, others females, and some are aroused by both males and females. Those attracted to females usually prefer 8- to 10-year-olds, whereas those attracted to males usually prefer slightly older children. Pedophilia involving female victims is reported more often than Pedophilia involving male victims.

Some individuals with Pedophilia are sexually attracted only to children (Exclusive Type), whereas others are sometimes attracted to adults (Nonexclusive Type.

Individuals with Pedophilia who act on their urges with children may limit their activity to undressing the child and looking, exposing themselves, masturbating in the presence of the child, or gentle touching and fondling of the child.

Others, however, perform fellatio or cunnilingus on the child or penetrate the child's vagina, mouth, or anus with their fingers, foreign objects, or penis and use varying degrees of force to do so.

These activities are commonly explained with excuses or rationalizations that they have "educational value" for the child, that the child derives "sexual pleasure" from them, or that the child was "sexually provocative" – themes that are also common in pedophilic pornography.

Because of the ego-syntonic nature of Pedophilia, many individuals with pedophilic fantasies, urges or behaviors do not experience significant distress. It is important to understand that experiencing distress about having the fantasies, urges or behaviors is not necessary for a diagnosis of Pedophilia. Individuals who have a pedophilic arousal pattern and act on these fantasies or urges with a child qualify for the diagnosis of Pedophilia.

Individuals may limit their activities to their own children, stepchildren, or relatives or may victimize children from outside their families. Some individuals with Pedophilia threaten the child to prevent disclosure. Others, particularly those who frequently victimize children, develop complicated techniques for obtaining access to children, which may include winning the trust of a child's mother, marrying a woman with an attractive child, trading children with other individuals with Pedophilia, or, in rare instances, taking in foster children from nonindustrialized countries or abducting children from strangers.

Except in cases in which the disorder is associated with Sexual Sadism, the person may be attentive to the child's needs in order to gain the child's affection, interest and loyalty and to prevent the child from reporting the sexual activity.

The disorder usually begins in adolescence, although some individuals with Pedophilia report that they did not become aroused by children until middle age. The frequency of pedophilic behavior often fluctuates with psychosocial stress. The course is usually chronic, especially in those attracted to males. The recidivism rate for individuals with Pedophilia involving a preference for males is roughly twice that for those who prefer females.

Diagnostic criteria for 302.2 Pedophilia
Over a period of at least six months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).
The person has acted on these sexual urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies caused marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.
The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.

Note: Do not include an individual in late adolescence involved in an ongoing sexual relationship with a 12- or 13-year-old.

Specify if:

Sexually Attracted to Males
Sexually Attracted to Females
Sexually Attracted to Both

Specify if:

Limited to Incest
Specify type:
Exclusive Type (attracted only to children)
Nonexclusive Type

[The Hen]

Stoat, I don't agree that value judgements are facts.

Case in point (seen with my own eyes): My Grandfather abused my mother.

She was a child.

My grandfather was not a pedophile; he was however a womanizer and fooled around constantly. His abuse of her, was a yet another form of power he enjoyed over women.

Depending on what this abuse entailed, that would be incest, not pedophilia. (Unless you are actually stating that you saw your grandfather abuse your mother whilst she was still classified as a child?)

If this abuse did occur when she was a child, it would be classified as incestuous pedophilia.

Which means, guess what?

Your Grandfather was an Incestual Pedophile.

[Gob]

Let's look at the logistics of this.

For Lo to have been conscious of her grandfather "abusing" her mother, and to have a good retentive memory of it, she would have had to have been at least 4 years old at the time.

For the grandfather's abuse to have been of any relevance to a discussion on paedophilia, Lo's mother would have had to have been under 16 years old at the time.

So in order for this to have occurred, Lo would have had to have been born to a 12 year old mother.

So I therefore posit that what we have here is another example of Lo making shit up to get attention.

[Joe Guy]

Case in point (seen with my own eyes): My Grandfather abused my mother.

She was a child.

My grandfather was not a pedophile; he was however a womanizer and fooled around constantly. His abuse of her, was a yet another form of power he enjoyed over women.

I'm trying to figure out how a grandfather (obviously an adult) could abuse a child and not be a pedophile.

All I can come up with is that the "abuse" Locatek referred to wasn't sexual abuse.

So Loca's definition of "abuse" is required in order to make sense of what she claims to have witnessed.

Parents and other relatives are sometimes found guilty of "child abuse." Most of those cases have nothing to do with sex. Child abuse in families quite often involves non-sexual bodily injury to a child or severe neglect.

As an aside, I would like to know how a grandchild could be an eyewitness to her mother being abused at the time her mother was a child.

Maybe it was a video?

I don't know. I can't figure that one out either.

[The Hen]

I thought Lo was referring to sexual abuse as immediately after stating she watched her mother being abused as a child, she revealing that her Grandfather was "a womanizer and fooled around constantly".