Suspicious minds.

Crackpot · Post by **Crackpot** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:28 pm

I'm not sure what you mean. You are aware that the gunfight at the OK corral was between "lawman" and "gang members" right?

Perhaps your analogy needs retooling.

rubato · Post by **rubato** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:33 pm

"Stand your ground " laws are for emotionally stunted people who would rather murder someone than back down risk 'losing face' and not kill them.

There is no real legal justification fur such stupidity. It is the rule of the most stupid.

yrs,
rubato

Crackpot · Post by **Crackpot** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:44 pm

Rubatos against it so obviously it can't be all bad.

Lord Jim · Post by **Lord Jim** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:46 pm

Rubatos against it so obviously it can't be all bad.

That sounds like a sensible standard...

Gob · Post by **Gob** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:50 pm

Crackpot wrote:I'm not sure what you mean. You are aware that the gunfight at the OK corral was between "lawman" and "gang members" right?

Perhaps your analogy needs retooling.

Fair point.

Isn't calling the law "stand your ground", encouraging people to stand and fight/shoot, isn't this likely to create more rather than less deaths?

Lord Jim · Post by **Lord Jim** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:58 pm

No Strop, not really...

It's as opposed to requiring someone to try to flee (which could obviously, depending on the circumstances, put one in greater danger) before they defend themselves...

Gob · Post by **Gob** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:00 pm

I think both situations are hazardous, but the law could be better named.

Crackpot · Post by **Crackpot** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:07 pm

Possibly.

What the law was written for was to counteract "the duty to retreat" has been sneaking into our laws. Many see it as preventing legally forcing someone to allow themselves to be victimized when they have the ability to stop it. there's valid points and pitfalls to both sides of the argument unfortunately it runs across hot button issues on both sides of the political spectrum virtually eliminating any chance of anything remotely approaching civil discourse or rational debate.

Crackpot · Post by **Crackpot** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:09 pm

I'n other words it will be the political equivalent of locking Rubato and Liberty1 in a room thunderdome style

Econoline · Post by **Econoline** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:02 am

Lord Jim · Post by **Lord Jim** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:24 am

I'n other words it will be the political equivalent of locking Rubato and Liberty1 in a room thunderdome style

I can't imagine anyone disagreeing with that....

Sean · Post by **Sean** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:26 am

Can it be arranged? Maybe as a pay-per-view event?

Gob · Post by **Gob** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:34 am

My money's on Liberty1,

but retard cuts an awesome figure.

BoSoxGal · Post by **BoSoxGal** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:59 am

I believe in the fundamental right to defend oneself, but when someone goes looking for a fight (as in this case) or chases down an attacker who has turned and fled, it's not self defense.

I don't care what kind of ideologically driven special statutes exist; it's morally wrong.

dales · Post by **dales** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:58 pm

Here's another take on the story (the one I believe will illuminate the situation after all the media BS dies down).

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/s ... n-03232012

Witness: Martin attacked Zimmerman

Updated: Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 6:19 PM EDT
Published : Friday, 23 Mar 2012, 5:47 PM EDT

ORLANDO - A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.

The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.

Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.

What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.

The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.

It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't have gone to jail.

Zimmerman called 911 and told dispatchers he was following a teen. The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to.

And from that moment to the shooting, details are few.

But one man's testimony could be key for the police.

"The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911," he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as "John," and didn't not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman's claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

"When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point," John said.

Zimmerman says the shooting was self defense. According to information released on the Sanford city website, Zimmerman said he was going back to his SUV when he was attacked by the teen.

Sanford police say Zimmerman was bloody in his face and head, and the back of his shirt was wet and had grass stains, indicating a struggle took place before the shooting.

All the race baiters like Al Sharpton and the Black Panthers (who placed a bounty on Zimmerman) can now go off and crawl under the nearest rock. Shame on all of you!

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:09 pm

If Zimmerman pursued and accosted Martin and then got the worst of the scuffle that followed, that doesn't magically turn his subsequent actions into self-defense. He was still the aggressor.

Joe Guy · Post by **Joe Guy** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:10 pm

And the story comes from Fox News so it must be true.

Why isn't this information part of the national discussion?

dales · Post by **dales** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:33 pm

Here's another URL, Joe.

http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-nation ... -zimmerman

Crackpot · Post by **Crackpot** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:52 pm

as scooter said if he was being chased (Which doesn't seem to be disputed), Zimmerman is still the aggressor.

dales · Post by **dales** » Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:57 pm

Let the Grand Jury decide.

Zimmeramn was beyond stupid for following the guy - I think there is more to the story than what the press has been throwing at us.

Scooter wrote:

If Zimmerman pursued and accosted Martin and then got the worst of the scuffle that followed, that doesn't magically turn his subsequent actions into self-defense. He was still the aggressor.

Initially, yes and I believe the case will hinge upon this fact. In CA, this would have been a slam dunk case against Zimmerman, in FL anything could happen.

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