Taxes in our future

[liberty]

I thought being an engineer was somewhat "outsourcing proof". I got layed off from Motorola after doing power studies, microprocessor studies and every other quailification of every IC/design part of a product and when it came time to do the actual design, it went to the far east.

A buddy of mine works for what used to be SMSC (they make the peripheral IC's in your PC/laptop) and they were just bought by Texas based (?) Microchip. For the last 8 years he has been on the phone every monday night at 9pm (yes, 9 at night) with his counterparts in India. He and his co-workers (all EE's with degrees from BS to Phd's) have been on edge recently (more than usual) as more of the design software is being shipped overseas. Seems us engineers in making info transfer available 24/7 at close to the speed of light have bit ourselves in the ass. Design cna (and is) done anywhere and the info can be transfered as the person is doing it. So, us in the northeast cannot compete with someone in the south let alone India or Taiwan.

We are all in the same boat in this country and need to start thinking of what is in the best interest of our country instead of our party. It is common sense not the party that matters.

[oldr_n_wsr]

It is uncommon sense not the party that matters.

Fixed that for you. But otherwise

[rubato]

The lower the skill level, the easier to outsource.

Just saying.

yrs,
rubato

[Econoline]

Oh, I don't know. I think it would be pretty hard to outsource the job of a waitress, or a truck driver, or a security guard...

[liberty]

Oh, I don't know. I think it would be pretty hard to outsource the job of a waitress, or a truck driver, or a security guard...

Unlike security guards and waitresses truck drivers can make pretty good money of course they have to give up a normal family life to do it.

[Gob]

So can whores, I wouldn't fancy the work though...

[liberty]

So can whores, I wouldn't fancy the work though...

I wouldn’t either. Perhaps that is why is available to some who would otherwise lack an opportunity to make good money.

[oldr_n_wsr]

The lower the skill level, the easier to outsource.

Just saying.

yrs,
rubato

Ditch digging, grass cutting, house painting, pool cleaning (opening/closing), just to name a few "low skill level" jobs that cannot be outsourced. Sure, a factory can be outsourced as laying off 1000's and shipping their jobs overseas brings economy of scale, but at what cost? I am a highly skilled Electrical Engineer and my job was outsourced after I did all the preliminary studies, chose the uP to use, did the general power design and boot up circuitry. Still the final design was sent to emmerson (sp?) to complete.

I know of highly skilled programmers who's jobs have been outsourced. So to say that the lower the skill, the easier to outsource is just plain wrong. With todays capability in info passing, it is easier now to outsource higher level skilled jobs. In effect, us, who helped design this info passing capability have hammered the nails in our own coffin.

Ever hear of tele-commuting? Well that is done now on a worldwide scale. No longer is a 1 hour commute necessary so the "worker" can be from LI or Maine or Delhi or eastern bum-fuck. Wherever pays less is the mantra. You can blame the republicans or you can blame the democrats (I believe it was Clinton back when with Nafta and some other crap but I could be wrong) but neither matters. Anything can be outsourced other than shit that has to be done here, that is, anything you own that needs repair, updated, rebuilt, built, cut, organized, screws turned, faucets fixed, window panes replaced, yeah, all those lower skilled jobs.

[Lord Jim]

Yeah, this is another one of those things that falls into the ever growing category of, "I don't know where he gets this stuff"...

Two seconds of thought could have avoided the embarrassment of saying something as silly as "The lower the skill level, the easier to outsource."

You can easily outsource research positions requiring advanced degrees in numerous scientific disciplines, but you can't out source the job of the guy who drives the newspaper delivery truck....

Theoretically, you could even outsource some types of legal work, (though obviously not all.)

A far more accurate statement would be to say, you can outsource jobs that can be performed from a remote location, but you can't out source jobs that require a hands-on physical presence in the US, regardless of the skill level.

Whether that physical presence is a surgeon in an operating room, or the guy running the asphalt machine fixing pot holes....

[dgs49]

EVERY commercial corporation owes a duty to its shareholders to maximize return on equity. If the company can make more money by having work done overseas, then the officers and directors would be failing in their obligations to continue doing that work here.

And it works globally. My current employer is German, the last one was Japanese, and the ones before that were Luxembourgian, French, Korean, and Italian. All of those companies considered that they could maximize profits by setting up operations in the U.S.

Do any of you object to that? They were "outsourcing" jobs from their home countries.

Bastards.

[Big RR]

Well, if you believe that's the only duty the corporation has, fine; but I think it also owes a duty to its employees and another to the public at large.

And FWIW, not all outsourcing is involves the sending of jobs that could be done here to another country, some jobs, by their very nature, need to be performed abroad.

[oldr_n_wsr]

You can easily outsource research positions requiring advanced degrees in numerous scientific disciplines,

Like the guys at Brookhaven lab here on LI sending out their collected data to scientists overseas and data coming back to them from the new collider in Europe.

Does outsourcing only refer to "assembly line" jobs? The company I now work for gets all it's PC boards from China. Why? it's cheaper. Knowing what I know about making PC boards the environmental considerations here in the USA are enormous. Don't know if they (EPA) go too far but somewhere is being polluted as you can't tell me that China observes anywhere near the amount of contol we have here on the chemicals and processes needed to produce a PC board.
We do test and assemble the final product here in the USA, so at least that is a step up from Apple.

[Econoline]

Uh-oh, maybe I spoke too soon about the truck drivers' jobs...

[rubato]

You can easily outsource research positions requiring advanced degrees in numerous scientific disciplines,

Like the guys at Brookhaven lab here on LI sending out their collected data to scientists overseas and data coming back to them from the new collider in Europe.
... "

Reagan killed the superconductor super collider and threw the money away on "star wars" which the aps* told him did not work. And on throw-aways for the rich in the S&L bailout.

yrs,
rubato

* The American Physical Society aka the real rocket scientists.

[oldr_n_wsr]

There's no way they could have built that on Long Island. I think they were talking about Texas which should have happened.

[MajGenl.Meade]

For rubato - I am currently enjoying this book very much and I think you would like it also (if you have not already read it) (or written it - no wait, I think he's British):

from How Mumbo Jumbo Conquered the World (2004) by Francis Wheen

In 1982 members of Congress were bribed to 'liberalise' the Savings & Loan industry, effectively promising that the public purse would cover any losses from bad investments made with savers' money but also undertaking not to oversee or regulate these investments. The consequences, predictably enough, were rampant fraud, the collapse of more than 650 S&L companies - and a bill of $1.4 trillion, to be met by the taxpayer.

Meade

[liberty]

This only part of what we need to do:
PARIS (AP) — The French government presented a budget Friday that was heavy on taxes — including a controversial 75 percent income rate on high earners

[loCAtek]

Uh-oh, maybe I spoke too soon about the truck drivers' jobs...

Yup, but not for quite that reason.

My friend Alpha Dog is/was a trucker driver and a skilled/qualified one at that. However, one of the reasons he continues to take contractor work in Iraq is truck driving isn't a way to get ahead for a living; you barely break even, what with the price of gas and other related expenses.
My roomie had seriously looked into doing that for a career (if it weren't for her kids) and came to the same conclusion. If you're just supporting yourself ; no family, no real estate, then maybe you can make that job lucrative. Otherwise, you're just spinning your wheels (ha!)

[liberty]

Uh-oh, maybe I spoke too soon about the truck drivers' jobs...

Yup, but not for quite that reason.

My friend Alpha Dog is/was a trucker driver and a skilled/qualified one at that. However, one of the reasons he continues to take contractor work in Iraq is truck driving isn't a way to get ahead for a living; you barely break even, what with the price of gas and other related expenses.
My roomie had seriously looked into doing that for a career (if it weren't for her kids) and came to the same conclusion. If you're just supporting yourself ; no family, no real estate, then maybe you can make that job lucrative. Otherwise, you're just spinning your wheels (ha!)

My friend who owns the property across the street did it for some years until he built up a nest egg. He said the high price of fuel really hurts. Between the price of fuel and the truck payment it is really tough until the truck is paid off. He said that the key to success is not to stop moving; that is probably why drugs are such a problem with truck drivers.

Another way that the little guy can make money is welding, certified welding that is, but unfortunately it is a skill that few people have. I understand that the guys who worked the Alaskan pipeline made a killing.

[rubato]

For rubato - I am currently enjoying this book very much and I think you would like it also (if you have not already read it) (or written it - no wait, I think he's British):

from How Mumbo Jumbo Conquered the World (2004) by Francis Wheen

In 1982 members of Congress were bribed to 'liberalise' the Savings & Loan industry, effectively promising that the public purse would cover any losses from bad investments made with savers' money but also undertaking not to oversee or regulate these investments. The consequences, predictably enough, were rampant fraud, the collapse of more than 650 S&L companies - and a bill of $1.4 trillion, to be met by the taxpayer.

Meade

Even worse, Reagan used taxpayer dollars to reimburse non-FDIC insured losses on CDs; a direct transfer of money from the poor to the rich.

http://www.fdic.gov/bank/historical/s&l/

This example of the complete disaster of deregulation was ignored during the housing boom created by mortgage-backed securities.

yrs,
rubato