A day that will live in infamy.......

[MajGenl.Meade]

With respect for you opinion the fact remains that those attacked were American Military whether or not they were forewarned has little bearing. The intent of the Japanese was to give no warning of an attack or even a declaration of war. . . I come from a long line of military men including myself which in itself does not give me any more standing than anyone else . . .

All who serve honourably deserve respect. I was not referring to the lack of a Japanese warning. I meant that those in service at Pearl Harbor did not join up in the (reasonably) certain knowledge that they would get shot at. This does not mean their deaths and injuries were any the less honourable and worth remembering. I simply have somewhat more awe of those who join up after hostilities exist; they put themselves knowingly in harm's way.

I forgot Grandpa Wallbank - King's Liverpool Rifles in WW1 (sorry gramps) - who along with my dad (WW2) and my son (2 tours of Afghanistan and now in South Korea) are, in my opinion, twice the man I could hope to be. Hence my reply to oldr that (in my case at least) I am already half the man they were/are.

And I think it gives you a bit more standing Miles - your service, not theirs - although both should equally be honoured.

Meade

[Miles]

Whenever you sign up for military service you will eventually become aquainted with those who have served in dire times. That is an essential part of the process of becoming the soilder you are expected to be. Your taught from the get go that the profession you have chosen is the most dangerous undertakings possible. Once you sign your name and take the oath you have committed yourself to give all you have to defend our country. There no innocents in the service. You roll the dice and take your chances.

I honor all those who have served, past, present and future. I reserve a special place for those who gave their lives.

[dgs49]

To say that the attack on Pearl Harbor was not successful is just plain silly.

It may have "awakened the sleeping giant," but you measure the success of a battle by casualties and losses, and the Japanese hit a home run on December 7, 1941.

I have three Japanese cars and a Japanese motorcycle. I remember not so long ago when my uncle - a steel worker - told me to park my Honda on the other side of the street when I came to visit, so nobody would think he had a traitor in his house.

Remember Pearl Harbor.

[MajGenl.Meade]

To say that the attack on Pearl Harbor was not successful is just plain silly. It may have "awakened the sleeping giant," but you measure the success of a battle by casualties and losses, and the Japanese hit a home run on December 7, 1941. I have three Japanese cars and a Japanese motorcycle. I remember not so long ago when my uncle - a steel worker - told me to park my Honda on the other side of the street when I came to visit, so nobody would think he had a traitor in his house. Remember Pearl Harbor.

And thus you become a victim of confusingg tactical victory with a strategic one; an error George McClellan made at Antietam but Abraham Lincoln did not. Success in attack is not measured by how many people get killed, unless you happen to be a simple terrorist, but by the effective damage done to the enemy's ability to fight and in their turn attack.

Pearl Harbour was a failure
(a) because its primary goal of removing the American fleet (particularly aircraft carriers) from the Pacific was not achieved.
(2) Hitler actually honoured an agreement that the Japanese insisted upon and declared war on the USA
(iii) the USA declared war on Japan, then Germany and Italy; the giant had been awake a long time but without an excuse
(.) it caused the Japanese navy and army to be spread too thin to achieve significant strategic victory in South East Asia and India.

Had the carriers been in port, Japan may have succeeded in their sneak attack. As it is, they did not.

If you count it a success because of your transport purchases, you may be assured that result is less than Tojo or Yamamoto hoped for

Meade

[Lord Jim]

Excellent analysis General.