And gun sales surge

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Lord Jim
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Re: And gun sales surge

Post by Lord Jim »

Yep, them dangerous gun free zones in school. Are these people insane?
Strop Old Darling, the problem here is that psychos and thugs, being well, psychos and thugs, don't tend to have a lot of respect for declarations of "gun free zones" (any more than the Soviets would have respected a declaration of a "nuclear free zone" had they wanted to launch a nuclear attack) so declaring something a "gun free zone" does not make it one....

I'd be all for "gun free zones" if it meant that we had some sort of scifi device that could be installed that would dematerialize a firearm anytime one appeared within the zone, but alas, it doesn't work that way...

All the "gun free zone" guarantees is that if there is a gun in the zone, it will be possessed by a bad guy...

The "gun free zone" concept is nothing but a well intended PC feel good concept that accomplishes precisely nothing in terms of providing for school safety, and arguably may even be counter productive...

You don't see a whole lot of stores or private homes proudly displaying "This Is A Gun Free Zone" stickers in their windows....

(And you certainly don't need to have signs declaring a "gun free zone" in front of the building to prohibit students from bringing firearms to school, or punish them, or their parents, if they do.)
I don't see why the suggestion of armed guards at schools is dismissed out of hand.
I certainly don't....

As I've said I would vastly prefer making federal funds available to pay for an eight hour shift for a regular local on duty police officer in the schools to the NRA's hodgepodge of private security proposal, but I certainly don't dismiss the idea of armed security at the schools...(As I've pointed out, according to the Justice Dept., about 25% of schools in this country have armed security already)

Perhaps the best approach might be to set up a system similar to what was done after 9/11 where the federal government would make monies available for local jurisdictions to do specific things if they chose to, (like getting all their first responders on the same radio system)

A fund could be set up to provide money to localities for the purpose of paying for on duty police in their schools if they chose to take advantage of it, but wouldn't compel any local jurisdiction that chose not to take advantage of it to do so.

But I want to stress, that unlike the out-to-lunch types in the NRA leadership, I certainly do not see this as any kind of complete approach to the problem. I have seen nothing so far, in any of the executive orders Obama has signed, or the proposals he has made, that I disagree with. (In fact, if I had my druthers, like the judge in the Tuscon case, I would go even further, and have the ban on assault weapons and high capacity magazines apply to those already in circulation, but that is probably politically impossible to accomplish.)

I have not read through all of Obama's Executive Orders on this, but since I haven't seen it mentioned in the press, I'm assuming that raising the priority of prosecutions of those convicted felons who have illegally attempted to purchase firearms wasn't on the list. It definitely should be. This is one aspect of the proposals the NRA has made that is spot on.
Last edited by Lord Jim on Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Big RR
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Re: And gun sales surge

Post by Big RR »

Jim--since you have apparently looked at some of the executive orders, I have a question as to how "assault weapons" are defined. Are these any and all semiautomatic weapons, certain types capable of rapid fir in excess of a certain rate, or are these just weapons that resemble military weapons but otherwise are no different from other semiautomatic rifles that would remain legal. The latter is the problem I have generally had with assault weapon bans--if the only reason something is banned is because of its appearance, I can see no valid reason to ban it--especially if comparable weapons that are equal in firepower but somehow less offensive in appearance will remain legal.

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Lord Jim
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Re: And gun sales surge

Post by Lord Jim »

Big RR, my understanding is that the Executive Orders don't have anything to do with assault rifles, that has to be handled through legislation.
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Big RR
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Re: And gun sales surge

Post by Big RR »

Acurally now that I recall it I think you may be right. He is urging Congress to act in this area.

oldr_n_wsr
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Re: And gun sales surge

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

or are these just weapons that resemble military weapons but otherwise are no different from other semiautomatic rifles that would remain legal.
From what I have read about NY's rush to make Cuomo a presidential candidate, the answer is YES. I can buy the same rifle (aka assault weapon) with the same fire rate, the same caliber, the same everything as long as it doesn't have a "pistol grip" or "flash suppressor" and as long as I don't put more than 7 bullets in the clip, I am good to go.

Semi-automatics are not banned. Magazines are not banned, although now, new sales are only allowed to hold 7 rounds, including law inforcement. Oops, I guess 15 minutes to review the bill was not enough time, but it's plenty of time for someone to change clips multiple times. I have fired an AR15 and it take me about 3 seconds to change a clip and less than a second to fire each cartridge. So in a minute, many many rounds can be fired. Don't need no pistol grip.

Personally, I don't like pistol grips, but that's my preference.

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Gob
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Re: And gun sales surge

Post by Gob »

oldr_n_wsr wrote: They are talking about private doctors turning in their patients if they "seem" to be leaning towards harming themselves and/or others. Don't know if medical doctors are fully trained to spot this. Then there is that nasty doctor-patient confidentiality.
.

No confidentiality where risk issues are concerned. Any doctor worth his salt who had the slightest inkling that a patient was becoming bi-polar/psychosomatic/schizophrenic/Personality disordered/depressed with psychotic features, etc, and there was an element of risk to the presentation, should/would involve mental health services straight away.

Or at least that is how it works here.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

Andrew D
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Re: And gun sales surge

Post by Andrew D »

Really?

It's a wonder that anyone in Australia ever seeks any treatment at all for mental problems.

And a question about your phrasing: Does "with psychotic features" refer only to "depressed"? Or does it also refer to "bi-polar/psychosomatic/schizophrenic/Personality disordered"?
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

Andrew D
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Re: And gun sales surge

Post by Andrew D »

Really?

It's a wonder that anyone in Australia ever seeks any treatment at all for mental problems.

And a question about your phrasing: Does "with psychotic features" refer only to "depressed"? Or does it also refer to "bi-polar/psychosomatic/schizophrenic/Personality disordered"?
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

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Gob
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Re: And gun sales surge

Post by Gob »

Andrew D wrote:Really?

It's a wonder that anyone in Australia ever seeks any treatment at all for mental problems.
They seem to, it keeps me in beer and scotch! :)
And a question about your phrasing: Does "with psychotic features" refer only to "depressed"? Or does it also refer to "bi-polar/psychosomatic/schizophrenic/Personality disordered"?
Nope, it's a separate diagnosis; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychotic_depression
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Lord Jim
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Re: And gun sales surge

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It's a wonder that anyone in Australia ever seeks any treatment at all for mental problems.
Well, they stay in Australia...

That automatically means that they have a mental problem....

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